9 ms·

Popular Mac app 'Bartender' acquired by new unknown developer

252 points by coloneltcb 2y ago

LorenDB 2y ago
This is why open-sourcing everything is the way to go. Hostile takeovers can be combated by forking the code.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  It’s a $22 paid app. Of course it’s not going to be open sourced.
  - orhmeh09 2y ago
    I think there are some open source macOS apps that provide code but sell binaries on the App Store, no?
    - Hamuko 2y ago
      I know at least of Textual. Open source but you can buy a pre-built binary for $10. Compiling it yourself was fairly easy when I tried it out once though. https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual
    - Aurornis 2y ago
      Yes, but it was sold to an acquirer by the original author. Making it open source would have interfered with the author’s profit goal. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make profit from your work and protect the source. Likewise, you’re free to avoid software that isn’t open source. However, it’s useless to make these demands that someone should have open sourced their work when that clearly wasn’t in the best interests of their goals.
  - aaronyarborough 2y ago
    I think the point was that open-sourced apps aren't vulnerable to an attack vector like this, which is true. Of course, not everything can be open-sourced, but the poster's point still stands.
    - Hamuko 2y ago
      Except that it's not really true, since open-sourced applications can and most definitely have changed maintainers. And even if they don't, there's still a risk. Do I need to remind everyone of the xz incident when it's so recent?
    - Aurornis 2y ago
      Open sourced apps are absolutely vulnerable to this “attack vector” Did you already forget about the back door in xz utils?
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    It is/was also available through a SetApp subscription.
- jrhey 2y ago
  Yes, just give us your software for free before you sell it to mystery buyer
calrain 2y ago
This is the attack vector I worry about the most.
bmulholland 2y ago
Also discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nazgu1 2y ago
What looks odd to me is this silence about acquisition. I've got a lot of emails and read enough blog posts from developers that brags about new owners and new opportunities that goes with it. Bartender is just utility app, but has permissions to e.g screen recording, so new version from new developer without prior explanation just seems shady
- xyst 2y ago
  Probably going to slip an AI “feature” into it somehow but it’s really just windows recall under the hood
- TillE 2y ago
  The Mac app scene especially is pretty small and tight-knit. Lots of indie developers have been around for decades and know each other well. That makes it even more jarring for an app to get acquired by a totally unknown company.
  - kotaKat 2y ago
    I'm surprised people keep trying to touch macOS apps like this. macOS productivity app users are some of the most keen and aware users on the market. Trying to pull a move like this and trying to hide it away like a quiet fart? We can smell enshittification from a mile away and we already know it smells like shit in here.
- radlad 2y ago
  With the most recent update, macOS notified me that I needed to allow new permissions. But macOS didn't explain that this was because the cert changed. When I Googled the issue, I found this support article: https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ The support article doesn't mention the cert change or the new owners, and instead calls it "a known issue where certain apps, including Bartender, might not receive Accessibility and Screen Recording permissions properly, despite the user granting them in System Settings." Highly disingenuous. I've uninstalled Bartender.
flenserboy 2y ago
This is good reason for why applications should be containerized. The Old OS X way of simply putting a bundle into the Applications directory was a good start.
sspiff 2y ago
> Future plans for the app remain unknown, but users have a right to know what’s going on behind the scenes. Do they though? You buy a license for a piece of software, and as far as I understand that doesn't include any fundamental rights involving insight into company policies, direction, business strategy, ... Regardless, this is of course quite a dubious takeover.
- bberenberg 2y ago
  This is often a major sticking point in M&A when you find out major contracts are not assignable or transferable depending on terms in those contracts. This can be with customers or vendors. My guess is a consumer app like Bartender isn’t going to have this issue, but just figured I’d share for a lucky 10k scenario.
- diggan 2y ago
  > > Future plans for the app remain unknown Also, this doesn't seem to be true anymore, the new owners did outline some future plans: > [...] We've collaborated closely with Ben to understand his vision for Bartender. Our goal is to implement many of the improvements he had planned and address any reported bugs from the past few months to enhance Bartender's performance. [...] https://old.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/comment/l73h9gv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/comment/l7...
  - nazgu1 2y ago
    Only if "Ordinary_Delivery_79" is real new owner…
    - SSLy 2y ago
      their reddit account is one day old, damn
- adamors 2y ago
  The thing is that you bought a license for Bartender 5 and up until version 5.0.49 it was shipped by one owner, then from 5.0.52 onwards by a different owner. Users absolutely have a right to know that the same software they bought is now being packaged by someone else. We're not talking about a different license or version 6 or whatever. Same software, different owner over night. BTW for people looking, https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/ still has the old versions up, 5.0.49 is still signed by Surtees Studios Limited
bnchrch 2y ago
This was something I learned when owning even a moderately successful github app. There are a lot of bad actors out there, who end up in your inbox monthly, asking to "acquire" your app for a small sum of money. I would bet some if not all were looking at it as a juicy attack vector against my users.
throwaway48476 2y ago
This is the danger of closed source software. There is no guarantee that the developers incentives will remain aligned with yours.
- duxup 2y ago
  If you’re not monitoring all your open source software, I am not sure there’s a whole lot of difference. Sure, someone could fork the original and make a “good” version again, but if you didn’t notice, it went bad… same problem. It might be easier with closed source to some extent, but I’m not sure that means open source has solved it.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    The difference is that you can fork if there's a breakdown in the developer user relationship. This is much better than being held hostage if you rely on the software.
    - duxup 2y ago
      To some extent I agree, but in both situations the breach already happened, who knows for how long.
- rchaud 2y ago
  This happens with OSS apps as well, see the Simple Mobile Tools takeover by an Israeli adware company, affecting several popular Android apps (Gallery, File Manager, others). https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241 https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Was it forked?
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    The big difference is free and freemium OSS can fork. There's no forking closed source backend servers or apps.
hbn 2y ago
Apple really needs to just build this functionality into macOS already. You shouldn't need to pay someone else to shove icons into a drawer. And on the new MacBooks with a notch through the center of the menu bar, it always seems like the icons on the right and the menus for the focused app on the left are ever encroaching towards that space.
- wlesieutre 2y ago
  Especially for people using larger sizes for accessibility, the insufficient menubar space is a silly problem that's been around for years and they've recently made much worse by adding the notch and expanding the spacing between menuextras. It's usually OK if you're in an application that only has File, Edit, View, Window, Help, but once you get into real productivity software you're going to have menu items overflowing to the right side of the notch and your important menu extras (like VPNs) become totally inaccessible when you run out of space.
  - dpedu 2y ago
    Eh. I like that this discourages usage of tray icons, which is a good thing. Your app doesn't need a tray icon, almost all apps don't. I remember back on windows xp, it felt like every darn app needed its own tray icon for some reason. To be fair, windows xp did have the ability to hide and show certain icons built-in.
    - wlesieutre 2y ago
      > I like that this discourages usage of tray icons, which is a good thing. Your app doesn't need a tray icon, almost all apps don't Well clearly that's not working because every app has a tray icon. It's time to catch up with Windows XP and let users control which ones are important and which ones get hidden. And the hidden ones should still be accessible. Bartender really nailed all that and it's sad that a 3rd party has to come in and fix this.
      - dpedu 2y ago
z5h 2y ago
I got a new Mac recently, had run Bartender in the past and decided to but the newest version without checking it out first. I was surprised to see the screen recording permission. This was 12 days ago. I wrote support saying: > I think screen recording is too much of a privacy and security concern. > Even if you have no bad intentions, if someone compromises your security, they have access to an app that I've allowed screen recording to. They replied: > Bartender 5 isn't actually capturing your screen, this message will show anytime Bartender gets an image of your menu bar items, Bartender only ever gets images of menu bar items, the menu bar, and the desktop wallpaper behind the menu bar. > That said, we are thinking of a way to isolate the parts of the app that need this particular permission so that way it becomes optional. I never gave the persmissions to Bartender.
- trauco 2y ago
  This permission request predated the change of ownership of Bartender.
  - radlad 2y ago
    Yes, but you had to re-enable it due to the cert change. Bartender doesn't explain this is what happened and simply states "there's a known issue where certain apps, including Bartender, might not receive Accessibility and Screen Recording permissions properly, despite the user granting them in System Settings." https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/
    - trauco 2y ago
      I agree the communication about this change of ownership has been far from ideal. But issues with permissions (e.g. the user needing to disable/re-enable some macOS permission after an update, even if the cert doesn't change) are fairly common.
      - nicolas_t 2y ago
        > I agree the communication about this change of ownership has been far from ideal. In this case, downright fraudulent.
k310 2y ago
I dropped Evernote when it was bought and the entire U.S. staff was fired. Replacing it with another, preferably free and open source. (search going on at this time)
- banish-m4 2y ago
  Evernote never worked reliably, well, or consistently. Apple Notes squished their business model and now Obsidian has somewhat juiced Apple's.
  - orhmeh09 2y ago
    Evernote worked reliably and well for me across Windows, Linux, and macOS when I was at school in the early 2010s. It had a great web clipper and it was good at handling PDFs and images. Apple Notes could not replicate that. While I pay for Obsidian nowadays, I find it nowhere near as usable as my Evernote setup at that time.
    - banish-m4 2y ago
      I gave up on Evernote around 2009 when they lost notes, corrupted them, and formatting was highly-inconsistent. Neither the Blackberry nor the iOS apps were entirely usable at that time. Maybe it improved after that, but it was just too slow, limited, risky, and untrustworthy.
      - orhmeh09 2y ago
        It's certainly possible that I got lucky to avoid the numerous data loss incidents and my use cases went along the happy path. I gave it up around 2013 due to privacy concerns.
  - pqs 2y ago
    It does now.
- narcomo 2y ago
  Try anytype.io it’s free and open source.
fifafu 2y ago
In case you are already using my BetterTouchTool app: I have created a little tutorial & example preset here on how to use it for status item management: https://community.folivora.ai/t/bartender-controversy-tutorial-on-how-to-manage-menubar-status-items-via-btt/37429 https://community.folivora.ai/t/bartender-controversy-tutori... You can add feature requests there, it should be pretty simple to extend BTT to support the remaining required features. I have also recently been approached by shady companies trying to buy my app (I'd never do that) - maybe they are currently targeting apps that require special permissions?
- tines 2y ago
  I just bought a license for BTT after having used it for a week or so. It's absolutely amazing. Thank you for making this awesome tool.
- apothegm 2y ago
  BTT is a fantastic app. I’ve been using it to tune up the ergonomics of macOS for over a decade now. Thank you for all your work on it!
- cloudrkt 2y ago
  I found an old Leap Motion device in a storage box with USB devices last week. The support you provided for it was great and had me waving at my desk all day. Even though the Leap Motion is now unsupported, I still enjoy using BTT daily.
  - fifafu 2y ago
    Haha, yes Leap Motion was a lot of fun and I think the BTT integration landed me my first job (@Siemens) after university. That must have been almost 10 years ago -- yep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJKFtLDx4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJKFtLDx4k
    - djhn 2y ago
      Wait, the software I’ve been using for what feels like decades and which always gave me a charming, cosy old school vibe due to its almost infinite options and deep understanding of OS X/macOS was written by someone younger than me!? Mind blown. It’s an incredible tool and among the first things I install on a new Mac.
michalf6 2y ago
Use Ice instead: https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice
- nazgu1 2y ago
  Or if you don't have a LOT of icons, there is option to decrase padding between them: https://flaky.build/built-in-workaround-for-applications-hiding-under-the-macbook-pro-notch https://flaky.build/built-in-workaround-for-applications-hid...
- petesergeant 2y ago
  I’ve been using this for the last six hours or so, and it’s decent. You use Cmd+drag to move icons between shown and unshown, which at the time of writing isn’t clear from the Readme or site
- evv 2y ago
  yeah, no reason these days to use proprietary solutions for small problems. I'll check out Ice, it seems much more modern (and maintained) than Dozer: https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer I just wish somebody would create an open source alternative to Rouge Amoeba's Loopback!
  - mistersquid 2y ago
    > I just wish somebody would create an open source alternative to Rouge [sic] Amoeba's Loopback! Rogue Amoeba has been around for over two decades. They are an early macOS X shop and their softwares are best of breed. Their esteemed Audio Hijack recently received an overhaul to its permissions structure. My understanding (gleaned from a podcast?) is Rogue Amoeba worked closely with Apple on this reworking. It is doubtful Rogue Amoeba would ever silently sell to an unknown developer. Rogue Amoeba is precisely the kind of software shop worth supporting with your money and time. I say this only as a satisfied user of several of their products. I have nothing against OSS and do use many OSS products; I also support software shops that produce good software at a good price and have demonstrated loyalty and commitment to their users. Rogue Amoeba is just such a shop.
j16sdiz 2y ago
I don't know, but since when buyers need to identify themself? This is just a change of ownership, no malware were found
- hbn 2y ago
  For a piece of software that has screen recording access on my device, I'd rather we have someone to hold accountable and is willing to put their reputation on the line to disincentivize them from updating it one day to start sending off images to home.
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    TBH, commercial software publishers with over $20M USD revenue or more than 25 employees should list a physical office and mailing address, and publish the membership of their leadership team. Hiding behind anonymity and randomly-generated nonsense brand names doesn't solve trust issues, but putting brands->reputations->names does heal it.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  no malware were found yet The fact that it was sold, but the selling was not announced, is incredibly shady. Normally, a developer shouts it from the rooftops, so it makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder if a condition of the sale was to not announce the sale. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I think you're being naive.
xyst 2y ago
What a shame. Used and paid for this app for a couple of years now.
bloopernova 2y ago
Sort of related question: is it possible to display the date in the macOS menu bar in the format 2024-06-05 10:18
- fretn 2y ago
  I think Dato can do this: https://sindresorhus.com/dato https://sindresorhus.com/dato
- jwells89 2y ago
  The free Itsycal[0] can display whichever date pattern you prefer. It’s what I’ve been using for several years now. [0]: https://www.mowglii.com/itsycal/ https://www.mowglii.com/itsycal/
  - bloopernova 2y ago
    Perfect, works great and almost exactly how I want it. Thank you!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Terretta 2y ago
  This used to be straightforward if you found your way into the internationalization formats and modified the right ones. It's no longer straightforward, see: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/463901/customising-the-system-locale-s-date-format-in-recent-macos-versions https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/463901/customising... Which in turn points to: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254316210?sortBy=best https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254316210?sortBy=best
avensec 2y ago
Unknown is now known: Purchased by applause.dev via https://x.com/digitalychee/status/1798207774993891626 https://x.com/digitalychee/status/1798207774993891626
- draugadrotten 2y ago
  The applause.dev home page makes bold claims about "transparency" yet the names behind the company are hidden and nowhere to be found. Why would a company want to keep the names of their CEO, founders and owners hidden?
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660
atommclain 2y ago
I've been using Dozer for some time with no complaints, I'm not sure how much of the feature set overlaps as I use it primarily hiding extraneous menubar items. https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer (For what its worth it looks like it hasn't been update in 3+ years)
- zimpenfish 2y ago
  One of the great features of Bartender is that it can unhide icons when they change or match a particular state. Handy for, e.g., hiding the battery until you're down to 30% or hiding your VPN icon whilst you're not connected. (let's hope some other apps pick up these features if Bartender turns out to have gone down a dark path)
- gaws 2y ago
  Last update: 2 years ago
AndroTux 2y ago
On an (kind of) unrelated note: If your mouse cursor suddenly stops changing shape when hovering over links for example, restart Bartender. It’s a known bug that they apparently don’t care enough about to fix.
Arubis 2y ago
Ergh. Thanks for the heads-up. Bartender's been super handy for years, but has sufficient access to do some damage. Suggested alternatives?
- serpix 2y ago
  Dozer does the same and is free.
submeta 2y ago
Just going to uninstall it. Wtf. - Are there alternatives?
- i-blis 2y ago
  I refrained to install Bartender on a new machine (despite having a license) because of the scary permissions it want me to grant it. I found an open source alternative that fits my needs. Check if fits yours. https://github.com/dwarvesf/hidden https://github.com/dwarvesf/hidden
  - gaws 2y ago
    Last update: 2 years ago
- illiac786 2y ago
  No good one for someone with a notch. Ice [0] is pretty cool and actively developped, but items just overflow into the notch when you open it, making them unreachable. Seem iBar [1] is the only real alternative for mac with notches, but it's closed source. [0] https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ibar-menubar-icon-control-tool/id6443843900?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ibar-menubar-icon-control-tool...
jmuguy 2y ago
If you end up switching to Ice, here's how you get menu items to always show. https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice/issues/69 https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice/issues/69 I'm sure author is overwhelmed right now and will eventually add that to readme.
widowlark 2y ago
Rather than bartender, use ICE - open source, similar feature set
bdcravens 2y ago
If you're already using Parallels, their companion toolbox app has a similar utility
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
luckman212 2y ago
I put together a small commandline tool to help catch these developer cert-swap situations. I wrapped it up in a LaunchAgent to periodically check and alert to this condition. https://github.com/luckman212/cscheck https://github.com/luckman212/cscheck
cognitionseo 2y ago
[dead]
nunez 2y ago
Bartender is the absolute best at what it did. I tried Jordan Baird's ICE but too much stuff was missing and I don't have as much time to hack as I did in years past. Shame that the dev sold out without warning. Assuming that Homebrew doesn't get poisoned with a haxored version of Bartender, you can install a non-tainted version of Bartender from Homebrew by installing it from its formula URL. Homebrew does not make it easy to do this, but it is possible: brew unlink bartender brew uninstall bartender curl -sSLo /tmp/bartender.rb "https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/blob/ac7bd3c11799ce95a7057796e9d01db81796f381/Casks/b/bartender.rb" brew install /tmp/bartender.rb rm /tmp/bartender.rb See also: https://stackoverflow.com/a/65946969 https://stackoverflow.com/a/65946969
ranklord 2y ago
[dead]

252 points by coloneltcb 2y ago

LorenDB 2y ago

This is why open-sourcing everything is the way to go. Hostile takeovers can be combated by forking the code.

Aurornis 2y ago
It’s a $22 paid app. Of course it’s not going to be open sourced.
- orhmeh09 2y ago
  I think there are some open source macOS apps that provide code but sell binaries on the App Store, no?
  - Hamuko 2y ago
    I know at least of Textual. Open source but you can buy a pre-built binary for $10. Compiling it yourself was fairly easy when I tried it out once though. https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    Yes, but it was sold to an acquirer by the original author. Making it open source would have interfered with the author’s profit goal. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to make profit from your work and protect the source. Likewise, you’re free to avoid software that isn’t open source. However, it’s useless to make these demands that someone should have open sourced their work when that clearly wasn’t in the best interests of their goals.
- aaronyarborough 2y ago
  I think the point was that open-sourced apps aren't vulnerable to an attack vector like this, which is true. Of course, not everything can be open-sourced, but the poster's point still stands.
  - Hamuko 2y ago
    Except that it's not really true, since open-sourced applications can and most definitely have changed maintainers. And even if they don't, there's still a risk. Do I need to remind everyone of the xz incident when it's so recent?
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    Open sourced apps are absolutely vulnerable to this “attack vector” Did you already forget about the back door in xz utils?
- banish-m4 2y ago
  It is/was also available through a SetApp subscription.
jrhey 2y ago
Yes, just give us your software for free before you sell it to mystery buyer

calrain 2y ago

This is the attack vector I worry about the most.

bmulholland 2y ago

Also discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nazgu1 2y ago

What looks odd to me is this silence about acquisition. I've got a lot of emails and read enough blog posts from developers that brags about new owners and new opportunities that goes with it. Bartender is just utility app, but has permissions to e.g screen recording, so new version from new developer without prior explanation just seems shady

xyst 2y ago
Probably going to slip an AI “feature” into it somehow but it’s really just windows recall under the hood
TillE 2y ago
The Mac app scene especially is pretty small and tight-knit. Lots of indie developers have been around for decades and know each other well. That makes it even more jarring for an app to get acquired by a totally unknown company.
- kotaKat 2y ago
  I'm surprised people keep trying to touch macOS apps like this. macOS productivity app users are some of the most keen and aware users on the market. Trying to pull a move like this and trying to hide it away like a quiet fart? We can smell enshittification from a mile away and we already know it smells like shit in here.
radlad 2y ago
With the most recent update, macOS notified me that I needed to allow new permissions. But macOS didn't explain that this was because the cert changed. When I Googled the issue, I found this support article: https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ The support article doesn't mention the cert change or the new owners, and instead calls it "a known issue where certain apps, including Bartender, might not receive Accessibility and Screen Recording permissions properly, despite the user granting them in System Settings." Highly disingenuous. I've uninstalled Bartender.

flenserboy 2y ago

This is good reason for why applications should be containerized. The Old OS X way of simply putting a bundle into the Applications directory was a good start.

sspiff 2y ago

> Future plans for the app remain unknown, but users have a right to know what’s going on behind the scenes. Do they though? You buy a license for a piece of software, and as far as I understand that doesn't include any fundamental rights involving insight into company policies, direction, business strategy, ... Regardless, this is of course quite a dubious takeover.

bberenberg 2y ago
This is often a major sticking point in M&A when you find out major contracts are not assignable or transferable depending on terms in those contracts. This can be with customers or vendors. My guess is a consumer app like Bartender isn’t going to have this issue, but just figured I’d share for a lucky 10k scenario.
diggan 2y ago
> > Future plans for the app remain unknown Also, this doesn't seem to be true anymore, the new owners did outline some future plans: > [...] We've collaborated closely with Ben to understand his vision for Bartender. Our goal is to implement many of the improvements he had planned and address any reported bugs from the past few months to enhance Bartender's performance. [...] https://old.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/comment/l73h9gv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/macapps/comments/1d7zjv8/comment/l7...
- nazgu1 2y ago
  Only if "Ordinary_Delivery_79" is real new owner…
  - SSLy 2y ago
    their reddit account is one day old, damn
adamors 2y ago
The thing is that you bought a license for Bartender 5 and up until version 5.0.49 it was shipped by one owner, then from 5.0.52 onwards by a different owner. Users absolutely have a right to know that the same software they bought is now being packaged by someone else. We're not talking about a different license or version 6 or whatever. Same software, different owner over night. BTW for people looking, https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/release_notes/ still has the old versions up, 5.0.49 is still signed by Surtees Studios Limited

bnchrch 2y ago

This was something I learned when owning even a moderately successful github app. There are a lot of bad actors out there, who end up in your inbox monthly, asking to "acquire" your app for a small sum of money. I would bet some if not all were looking at it as a juicy attack vector against my users.

throwaway48476 2y ago

This is the danger of closed source software. There is no guarantee that the developers incentives will remain aligned with yours.

duxup 2y ago
If you’re not monitoring all your open source software, I am not sure there’s a whole lot of difference. Sure, someone could fork the original and make a “good” version again, but if you didn’t notice, it went bad… same problem. It might be easier with closed source to some extent, but I’m not sure that means open source has solved it.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The difference is that you can fork if there's a breakdown in the developer user relationship. This is much better than being held hostage if you rely on the software.
  - duxup 2y ago
    To some extent I agree, but in both situations the breach already happened, who knows for how long.
rchaud 2y ago
This happens with OSS apps as well, see the Simple Mobile Tools takeover by an Israeli adware company, affecting several popular Android apps (Gallery, File Manager, others). https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241 https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu...
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Was it forked?
- banish-m4 2y ago
  The big difference is free and freemium OSS can fork. There's no forking closed source backend servers or apps.

hbn 2y ago

Apple really needs to just build this functionality into macOS already. You shouldn't need to pay someone else to shove icons into a drawer. And on the new MacBooks with a notch through the center of the menu bar, it always seems like the icons on the right and the menus for the focused app on the left are ever encroaching towards that space.

wlesieutre 2y ago
Especially for people using larger sizes for accessibility, the insufficient menubar space is a silly problem that's been around for years and they've recently made much worse by adding the notch and expanding the spacing between menuextras. It's usually OK if you're in an application that only has File, Edit, View, Window, Help, but once you get into real productivity software you're going to have menu items overflowing to the right side of the notch and your important menu extras (like VPNs) become totally inaccessible when you run out of space.
- dpedu 2y ago
  Eh. I like that this discourages usage of tray icons, which is a good thing. Your app doesn't need a tray icon, almost all apps don't. I remember back on windows xp, it felt like every darn app needed its own tray icon for some reason. To be fair, windows xp did have the ability to hide and show certain icons built-in.
  - wlesieutre 2y ago
    > I like that this discourages usage of tray icons, which is a good thing. Your app doesn't need a tray icon, almost all apps don't Well clearly that's not working because every app has a tray icon. It's time to catch up with Windows XP and let users control which ones are important and which ones get hidden. And the hidden ones should still be accessible. Bartender really nailed all that and it's sad that a 3rd party has to come in and fix this.
    - dpedu 2y ago

z5h 2y ago

I got a new Mac recently, had run Bartender in the past and decided to but the newest version without checking it out first. I was surprised to see the screen recording permission. This was 12 days ago. I wrote support saying: > I think screen recording is too much of a privacy and security concern. > Even if you have no bad intentions, if someone compromises your security, they have access to an app that I've allowed screen recording to. They replied: > Bartender 5 isn't actually capturing your screen, this message will show anytime Bartender gets an image of your menu bar items, Bartender only ever gets images of menu bar items, the menu bar, and the desktop wallpaper behind the menu bar. > That said, we are thinking of a way to isolate the parts of the app that need this particular permission so that way it becomes optional. I never gave the persmissions to Bartender.

trauco 2y ago
This permission request predated the change of ownership of Bartender.
- radlad 2y ago
  Yes, but you had to re-enable it due to the cert change. Bartender doesn't explain this is what happened and simply states "there's a known issue where certain apps, including Bartender, might not receive Accessibility and Screen Recording permissions properly, despite the user granting them in System Settings." https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/ https://www.macbartender.com/Bartender5/PermissionIssues/
  - trauco 2y ago
    I agree the communication about this change of ownership has been far from ideal. But issues with permissions (e.g. the user needing to disable/re-enable some macOS permission after an update, even if the cert doesn't change) are fairly common.
    - nicolas_t 2y ago
      > I agree the communication about this change of ownership has been far from ideal. In this case, downright fraudulent.

k310 2y ago

I dropped Evernote when it was bought and the entire U.S. staff was fired. Replacing it with another, preferably free and open source. (search going on at this time)

banish-m4 2y ago
Evernote never worked reliably, well, or consistently. Apple Notes squished their business model and now Obsidian has somewhat juiced Apple's.
- orhmeh09 2y ago
  Evernote worked reliably and well for me across Windows, Linux, and macOS when I was at school in the early 2010s. It had a great web clipper and it was good at handling PDFs and images. Apple Notes could not replicate that. While I pay for Obsidian nowadays, I find it nowhere near as usable as my Evernote setup at that time.
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    I gave up on Evernote around 2009 when they lost notes, corrupted them, and formatting was highly-inconsistent. Neither the Blackberry nor the iOS apps were entirely usable at that time. Maybe it improved after that, but it was just too slow, limited, risky, and untrustworthy.
    - orhmeh09 2y ago
      It's certainly possible that I got lucky to avoid the numerous data loss incidents and my use cases went along the happy path. I gave it up around 2013 due to privacy concerns.
- pqs 2y ago
  It does now.
narcomo 2y ago
Try anytype.io it’s free and open source.

fifafu 2y ago

In case you are already using my BetterTouchTool app: I have created a little tutorial & example preset here on how to use it for status item management: https://community.folivora.ai/t/bartender-controversy-tutorial-on-how-to-manage-menubar-status-items-via-btt/37429 https://community.folivora.ai/t/bartender-controversy-tutori... You can add feature requests there, it should be pretty simple to extend BTT to support the remaining required features. I have also recently been approached by shady companies trying to buy my app (I'd never do that) - maybe they are currently targeting apps that require special permissions?

tines 2y ago
I just bought a license for BTT after having used it for a week or so. It's absolutely amazing. Thank you for making this awesome tool.
apothegm 2y ago
BTT is a fantastic app. I’ve been using it to tune up the ergonomics of macOS for over a decade now. Thank you for all your work on it!
cloudrkt 2y ago
I found an old Leap Motion device in a storage box with USB devices last week. The support you provided for it was great and had me waving at my desk all day. Even though the Leap Motion is now unsupported, I still enjoy using BTT daily.
- fifafu 2y ago
  Haha, yes Leap Motion was a lot of fun and I think the BTT integration landed me my first job (@Siemens) after university. That must have been almost 10 years ago -- yep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJKFtLDx4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJKFtLDx4k
  - djhn 2y ago
    Wait, the software I’ve been using for what feels like decades and which always gave me a charming, cosy old school vibe due to its almost infinite options and deep understanding of OS X/macOS was written by someone younger than me!? Mind blown. It’s an incredible tool and among the first things I install on a new Mac.

michalf6 2y ago

Use Ice instead: https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice

nazgu1 2y ago
Or if you don't have a LOT of icons, there is option to decrase padding between them: https://flaky.build/built-in-workaround-for-applications-hiding-under-the-macbook-pro-notch https://flaky.build/built-in-workaround-for-applications-hid...
petesergeant 2y ago
I’ve been using this for the last six hours or so, and it’s decent. You use Cmd+drag to move icons between shown and unshown, which at the time of writing isn’t clear from the Readme or site
evv 2y ago
yeah, no reason these days to use proprietary solutions for small problems. I'll check out Ice, it seems much more modern (and maintained) than Dozer: https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer I just wish somebody would create an open source alternative to Rouge Amoeba's Loopback!
- mistersquid 2y ago
  > I just wish somebody would create an open source alternative to Rouge [sic] Amoeba's Loopback! Rogue Amoeba has been around for over two decades. They are an early macOS X shop and their softwares are best of breed. Their esteemed Audio Hijack recently received an overhaul to its permissions structure. My understanding (gleaned from a podcast?) is Rogue Amoeba worked closely with Apple on this reworking. It is doubtful Rogue Amoeba would ever silently sell to an unknown developer. Rogue Amoeba is precisely the kind of software shop worth supporting with your money and time. I say this only as a satisfied user of several of their products. I have nothing against OSS and do use many OSS products; I also support software shops that produce good software at a good price and have demonstrated loyalty and commitment to their users. Rogue Amoeba is just such a shop.

j16sdiz 2y ago

I don't know, but since when buyers need to identify themself? This is just a change of ownership, no malware were found

hbn 2y ago
For a piece of software that has screen recording access on my device, I'd rather we have someone to hold accountable and is willing to put their reputation on the line to disincentivize them from updating it one day to start sending off images to home.
- banish-m4 2y ago
  TBH, commercial software publishers with over $20M USD revenue or more than 25 employees should list a physical office and mailing address, and publish the membership of their leadership team. Hiding behind anonymity and randomly-generated nonsense brand names doesn't solve trust issues, but putting brands->reputations->names does heal it.
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
no malware were found yet The fact that it was sold, but the selling was not announced, is incredibly shady. Normally, a developer shouts it from the rooftops, so it makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder if a condition of the sale was to not announce the sale. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I think you're being naive.

xyst 2y ago

What a shame. Used and paid for this app for a couple of years now.

bloopernova 2y ago

Sort of related question: is it possible to display the date in the macOS menu bar in the format 2024-06-05 10:18

fretn 2y ago
I think Dato can do this: https://sindresorhus.com/dato https://sindresorhus.com/dato
jwells89 2y ago
The free Itsycal[0] can display whichever date pattern you prefer. It’s what I’ve been using for several years now. [0]: https://www.mowglii.com/itsycal/ https://www.mowglii.com/itsycal/
- bloopernova 2y ago
  Perfect, works great and almost exactly how I want it. Thank you!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Terretta 2y ago
This used to be straightforward if you found your way into the internationalization formats and modified the right ones. It's no longer straightforward, see: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/463901/customising-the-system-locale-s-date-format-in-recent-macos-versions https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/463901/customising... Which in turn points to: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254316210?sortBy=best https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254316210?sortBy=best

avensec 2y ago

Unknown is now known: Purchased by applause.dev via https://x.com/digitalychee/status/1798207774993891626 https://x.com/digitalychee/status/1798207774993891626

draugadrotten 2y ago
The applause.dev home page makes bold claims about "transparency" yet the names behind the company are hidden and nowhere to be found. Why would a company want to keep the names of their CEO, founders and owners hidden?

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40579660

atommclain 2y ago

I've been using Dozer for some time with no complaints, I'm not sure how much of the feature set overlaps as I use it primarily hiding extraneous menubar items. https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer https://github.com/Mortennn/Dozer (For what its worth it looks like it hasn't been update in 3+ years)

zimpenfish 2y ago
One of the great features of Bartender is that it can unhide icons when they change or match a particular state. Handy for, e.g., hiding the battery until you're down to 30% or hiding your VPN icon whilst you're not connected. (let's hope some other apps pick up these features if Bartender turns out to have gone down a dark path)
gaws 2y ago
Last update: 2 years ago

AndroTux 2y ago

On an (kind of) unrelated note: If your mouse cursor suddenly stops changing shape when hovering over links for example, restart Bartender. It’s a known bug that they apparently don’t care enough about to fix.

Arubis 2y ago

Ergh. Thanks for the heads-up. Bartender's been super handy for years, but has sufficient access to do some damage. Suggested alternatives?

serpix 2y ago
Dozer does the same and is free.

submeta 2y ago

Just going to uninstall it. Wtf. - Are there alternatives?

i-blis 2y ago
I refrained to install Bartender on a new machine (despite having a license) because of the scary permissions it want me to grant it. I found an open source alternative that fits my needs. Check if fits yours. https://github.com/dwarvesf/hidden https://github.com/dwarvesf/hidden
- gaws 2y ago
  Last update: 2 years ago
illiac786 2y ago
No good one for someone with a notch. Ice [0] is pretty cool and actively developped, but items just overflow into the notch when you open it, making them unreachable. Seem iBar [1] is the only real alternative for mac with notches, but it's closed source. [0] https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ibar-menubar-icon-control-tool/id6443843900?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ibar-menubar-icon-control-tool...

jmuguy 2y ago

If you end up switching to Ice, here's how you get menu items to always show. https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice/issues/69 https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice/issues/69 I'm sure author is overwhelmed right now and will eventually add that to readme.

widowlark 2y ago

Rather than bartender, use ICE - open source, similar feature set

bdcravens 2y ago

If you're already using Parallels, their companion toolbox app has a similar utility

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

luckman212 2y ago

I put together a small commandline tool to help catch these developer cert-swap situations. I wrapped it up in a LaunchAgent to periodically check and alert to this condition. https://github.com/luckman212/cscheck https://github.com/luckman212/cscheck

cognitionseo 2y ago

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nunez 2y ago

Bartender is the absolute best at what it did. I tried Jordan Baird's ICE but too much stuff was missing and I don't have as much time to hack as I did in years past. Shame that the dev sold out without warning. Assuming that Homebrew doesn't get poisoned with a haxored version of Bartender, you can install a non-tainted version of Bartender from Homebrew by installing it from its formula URL. Homebrew does not make it easy to do this, but it is possible: brew unlink bartender brew uninstall bartender curl -sSLo /tmp/bartender.rb "https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/blob/ac7bd3c11799ce95a7057796e9d01db81796f381/Casks/b/bartender.rb" brew install /tmp/bartender.rb rm /tmp/bartender.rb See also: https://stackoverflow.com/a/65946969 https://stackoverflow.com/a/65946969

ranklord 2y ago

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