9 ms·

Google Maps is killing Timeline for Web

181 points by donatj 2y ago

BowBun 2y ago
And another one! I actually used this regularly on my PC to remember places I'd gone to on trips, or back in time. > The company is switching to an on-device approach that is more private and works on each phone independently. They're literally harvesting all of your location history, transaction histories, etc. What exactly is more private about doing it on your phone? It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively.
- prepend 2y ago
  They mean “more private” as in your data are less useful for things like exporting into tools or third parties. I wish google would just focus on apis and tools for me to work with my data as interoperable as possible. But there’s no money in this, so I guess it’s not a priority.
- asah 2y ago
  MORE private, not completely private. I'd argue that anything entered into a computer is not completely private, and since location can be inferred from environmental signals (e.g. cell towers, other devices, webcams, etc) location is one of the least private types of data.
- cimnine 2y ago
  > And another one! I actually used this regularly on my PC to remember places I'd gone to on trips, or back in time. Me too. High-noon to engage Google Takeout [1] – so that I at least have a copy of all that data. Off-topic: TIL, that Google Takeout can do regular backups automatically for up to one year when you link it to some cloud storage account (GDrive, Dropbox, One Drive, Box). [1] https://takeout.google.com https://takeout.google.com
  - chris_wot 2y ago
    Wait till they remove Google Takeout
    - WesolyKubeczek 2y ago
      Don't give them ideas. Although... EU will smack them with fines for it. And probably California, too.
      - GeoAtreides 2y ago
        > EU will smack them with fines for it. And probably California, too. Kind and respectful reminder that HN does not permit the users to delete their data or download it. It is against the law in EU (and probably California), but it hasn't been legally tested yet.
        j-bos 2y ago
        Hn is an interesting one because there's not even an email associated. Though I imagine they have logs of IPs and such. Still, an equivalent feels like ad networks that are everywhere though don't seem to have a way to delete data.
        LopovJack 2y ago
        Doesn't that refer to personal data only? If you did not provide personal info to HN, would GDPR still apply?
        pajko 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten#European...
        senordevnyc 2y ago
        YC / HN are in the US, not the EU. Yes, I know, Europeans think their laws automatically apply globally, but laws are meaningless without enforcement. Hence why 99% of US companies can safely ignore GDPR unless they're operating in the EU (which HN is not).
- WesolyKubeczek 2y ago
  They are harvesting it for themselves, not for you.
- afavour 2y ago
  > It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively. Isn’t that what “more private and works on each device independently” implies? Obviously we need more detail on the implementation here but AFAIK Timeline is the only time I’ve seen a full accounting of my location in the cloud. There will, I’m sure, be a lot of ways it can still be inferred: purchases, which IP address I’m on etc etc but if Google is stepping away from constantly streaming your phone GPS location to the cloud that’s surely a good thing.
  - DaveSchmindel 2y ago
    > ...Timeline is the only time I've seen a full accounting of my location in the cloud. Yes, that _you've_ seen. I think the person you're replying to is referring to use cases of your location data that you don't see.
    - afavour 2y ago
      That feels like a kind of useless conversation though, there are no facts involved. Once Google had implemented the change they’ve outlined here someone can plug their phone into Wireshark and see what, if anything, has changed. Then there’s a conversation to be had.
      - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
        Wireshark would likely be unhelpful. Everything runs encrypted.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      Wouldn't they have to reveal that in GDPR requests?
  - fauigerzigerk 2y ago
    >> It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively. >Isn’t that what “more private and works on each device independently” implies? Probably, but I don't think it should be taken to mean that location data stays on the device. Surely, Google will continue to use location data for ad targeting. Location is also used in countless other places such as Photos. The Google Maps timeline is a specific database and this particular database will be stored on-device. I don't think it changes anything for how Google uses location data more generally.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- gostsamo 2y ago
  Spousal abuse works well through this feature. Not sure if this is it or privacy theatre, but it will force potential domestic stalkers to become more visible and/or to put more effort.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    Am I the only one who feels that "domestic abuse" is becoming the new "think of the children" in computing? The problem is serious, but if we follow the logic of removing any and all features that could aid the abuser in tracking their victim or preventing them from getting help, then we'd have to remove a lot of functionality considered basic. This includes e.g. security warnings that you've logged in from a new location/machine, or an dashboard showing active sessions. Hell, this probably includes location tags and dates on photos in your own phone gallery. Abusers, especially spouses, have a lot of options on their disposal (including that the assumption that phone is a personal device no longer holds). I'm not sure how is removing web access to Timeline really helping here.
    - gostsamo 2y ago
      It is very likely that you are indeed the only one. "Think of the children" is aimed at eroding privacy while this feature is aimed at increasing it and the goals are diametrically opposite. I used the spousal example because it was the shortest path between web access and demonstrating potential harm. However, bad browser extensions and stallen credentials can lead to the same result if the attacker is interested in using your history against you.
- bux93 2y ago
  What's "more private" is that Google won't need to respond to apporax. a million daily requests for information from law enforcement(?) anymore. Cf. whatsapp - they've been encrypting messages for years, but only recently started encrypting (if you enable it) the cloud backups at google. Encrypting the data that went to their own servers was a higher priority. And they could just send law enforcement to the cloud storage provider. Are those two things related? Curious minds wonder.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kcb 2y ago
  Spent many hours reminiscing over my past timeline. So disappointed to hear this.
  - tedmiston 2y ago
    It would be cool if someone made a similar minimal open source desktop UI that could run on the data export from Google Takeout [or whatever the future export mechanism turns out to be].
eka1 2y ago
Was this change made to comply with regulation or save on cloud resources?
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  That google maps feature was probably supported by a team of 5 that they decided they didn't want to use for that anymore. And some PM decided they could get a promo by 'unifying interfaces to simplify and enhance the user experience'
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- beardyw 2y ago
  My understanding is that they get a lot of demands from law enforcement for this data, so they would rather not have it.
  - LanceH 2y ago
    I didn't see anything in the article that said they are (for sure) not retaining this data. "Google could purge some or all of your location history when it sunsets Timeline’s web access" -- or they might not. It just won't be available to the user.
    - darkwater 2y ago
      What would be the point of moving to an on-device approach AND keep the data remotely as well? Just keep it remotely as it currently is, no?
semolino 2y ago
One can only assume that GOOG is still collecting/inferring device location whenever possible, and putting the pieces together on the back end to paint a broader picture of the user. Removing the user-facing feature that shows all this collected data is akin to the classic tech company manoeuvre of adding an "isDeleted" attribute to data, hiding it, and keeping it in the 'base when a client requests to delete something. Out of sight, out of mind!
- surajrmal 2y ago
  By removing the user facing features like this, wouldn't it become challenging to comply with gdpr while still collecting this information?
  - semolino 2y ago
    Yes, certainly, but Google only needs to appear that they are complying with GDPR. Their incentive is still to collect as much information as possible for their advertising partners. There are many loopholes for a company to use and sell location data while claiming it stays on users' devices, or remains encrypted while kept on company servers.
martyvis 2y ago
Timeline has been so useful. I have used it as a way to recall where we stopped in holidays, check where I was when I made a purchase, and to help diarise work related car trips for tax purposes. Having a small computer a with you with lots of sensors on it that is able to record images, sounds, and log location is infinitely more useful when it is searchable in an archive. I don't want to have to do that searching on a small screen.
- afavour 2y ago
  I started using Foursquare’s Swarm app for recording locations on holiday etc. it works well enough even if it has a load of social nonsense I don’t need or use.
  - xp84 2y ago
    I was a longtime user of 4sq/swarm in its heyday, but eventually gave up on it mainly because they never could figure out how to automatically check me in — like Google Timeline does. The whole product has the stench of death about it these days, though. It seems like it’s a hair’s breadth from being discontinued, and its lack of any changes in the past 7 years or so makes me suspect that they have about half a FTE working on it at most.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  I built a web app last year for planning travel but it's also great for tracking your travels and story telling. We use it for both (plan and log). Check out https://turas.app https://turas.app. Our trip: https://turas.app/s/taiwan/0vylwa7K https://turas.app/s/taiwan/0vylwa7K
  - ebiester 2y ago
    I've had that in the back of my mind since 2008 and even started building it once but couldn't find a revenue model that made sense - I like that you just decided not to bother with the revenue model!
conradfr 2y ago
[flagged]
- slig 2y ago
  It's almost as if they don't want you to do that and instead use their search even for walking distances.
chris_wot 2y ago
If you don’t start using new Google products, you won’t have to worry about when they will remove the service.
- drpossum 2y ago
  I'm not sure what this comment is relevant to. Timelines is not "new"
  - mistercool 2y ago
    At one point it was
  - bitcharmer 2y ago
    It's relevant to all google services
  - internet2000 2y ago
    The best time to follow GP's advice was when Timelines launched. The second best time is now.
- rnts08 2y ago
  Words of wisdom.
duegreg 2y ago
Am I the only one who choose convenience over privacy? This should be a checkbox and not export and import.
- agluszak 2y ago
  The thing is - in this case you only lose convenience and gain nothing in terms of privacy, because G will have access to that data anyway
pk20000 2y ago
Right. They are doing it for privacy. Maybe also thinking of the children. I really used it on the web. Was looking forward to the email they sent in the beginning of each month. Bastards!
- LanceH 2y ago
  Privacy as in, "keep it private from the users".
aeonik 2y ago
Great, this means I'm going to need to learn GIS tools... Thanks Google, I guess it was over due.
lentil_soup 2y ago
Is there any decent replacement to this kind of thing? I quite enjoyed looking through my timeline reliving special days or holidays
- yoavm 2y ago
  OwnTracks (https://owntracks.org/ https://owntracks.org/) seems quite well maintained, is FOSS, has iOS and Android clients and the server can be installed in one click if you're running Yunohost.
  - cromka 2y ago
    Looks like it's fairly easy to import location history from Google, too: https://www.technowizardry.net/2024/01/migrating-from-google-location-history-to-owntracks/ https://www.technowizardry.net/2024/01/migrating-from-google...
  - dspillett 2y ago
    That looks like it'll either be much lower resolution than Google's timeline (manual or 15 minute checks) or will consume a lot more battery life than I'd be happy with (due to relying on GPS, turning it on for a location fix every minute). Given wireless is turned on 24/7 for most people, it seems to me that a better method would be to cache APs that the user sees, so that if the same set of APs (or a significant subset there-of) are visible there is no need to ask for the GPS parts to be turned on. Obviously that is more work and there are some complexities to account for¹²³ but this is how Google's timeline uses little power. They have an centralised international database of AP locations (slurped while collecting images for Maps/Streetview and no doubt other sources) but that isn't really needed – you can just keep a list of APs seen recently and where on each users own device⁴. It isn't something I'd have time or desire to develop. You'd have the faf of getting it approved in an appstore, dealing with supporting users that just don't understand, fun with some phones⁵ overly aggressively killing apps not matter what the user selects in order to make grandiose battery life claims (and users blaming that on your app), etc., but if someone else wants to (especially if it is an open source and/or stalking free app) feel free to take the idea, and I'll consider using your implementation! --- [1] APs move or get renamed [2] Assuming APs are identified by SSID there will be some names that are the same in multiple locations [3] Some APs constantly move by design, i.e. those on public transport. [4] Not having a central DB just means each device doesn't immediately benefit from the location cache avoiding GPS use when visiting a new area, but each device will quickly build a view of local APs for any area it enters. [5] I'm looking at you, Xiaomi!
KeplerBoy 2y ago
Ugh, this is annoying. Especially since the feature probably can't easily be replicated by a third party app. I wouldn't be surprised if the APIs used to get a rough estimate of the position in the background without invoking battery draining GPS are private.
behnamoh 2y ago
Add it to https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
- aembleton 2y ago
  But it's not been killed, just moved to the device rather than the cloud
nalekberov 2y ago
> To keep users’ sensitive location data more private and secure, Google Maps will sunset web access for its Timeline feature in the coming months. Google is the last company I will ever trust with my data on earth. They keep literally everything about their users, what makes e.g. email less sensitive than location data? What I smell here is there is probably something else Google is trying to rephrase in more "acceptable" way.
ipsento606 2y ago
This is one of my most-used google maps features on web. This absolutely sucks.
m1nes 2y ago
I am so happy to have migrated everything from Google Cloud
davidmurdoch 2y ago
Anyone here work for Google in a capacity that can explain why they remove features that are oft used and that people love? Things like Reader, location-based reminders ("remind me when I get home to..."), controlling my oven via the Assistant, Fitbit with Google workspace accounts, and now Maps timeline. Like... I will just find replacements for all those and further myself even more from the Google ecosystem. What benefits does Google get out of killing these popular features?
- klodolph 2y ago
  It comes down to “the project doesn’t have enough staffing to keep operating” in the end, and those decisions get made way higher up. Any engineer at Google has no visibility into that. Engineers at Google only understand how understaffed projects get shut down—it’s because there isn’t enough staff on the project to keep updating to work with Google’s changing infrastructure. This isn’t the root cause, though, it’s just a contributing factor. Maybe if Google infrastructure changed less, some of these projects would stick around longer with reduced staff.
  - bitcharmer 2y ago
    How much staffing does a feature like that even require? It's not like it even requires any maintenance at this point. They could just leave it alone.
    - roland35 2y ago
      I think the issue is that the underlying dependencies are changing, so even if the feature set never changes it still requires some amount of engineering work to keep it up and running.
    - myth_drannon 2y ago
      Depends on the tech stack. If it's JS/TS then it's a nightmare to maintain, with all the Critical and High security issues. Packages that are not updated anymore you need to replace with something else. You can't just leave it alone, it's easier to shut it down and save yourself another accident and subsequent postmortem.
pspeter3 2y ago
I tried to export my Timeline history but I cannot get the full version. My Pixel 8 has the full version but no way to export. My iPhone does have a way to export but does not have the full version.
wslh 2y ago
It is clear now that Google "don't be evil" [1] turned into equal or worst than Microsoft? The Microsoft antitrust case now seems like a joke. Zillions of things happened from that time that the law system cannot digest as "easy" as Internet Explorer as a monopolistic move. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
ChoGGi 2y ago
Fuck sake Google
geoGoog 2y ago
Throwaway for very lawyer cat legal reasons. Layoffs and attrition has gutted some teams and puts pressure on what and cannot be maintained. This is compounded when teams are offshored to India or Poland and none of the original engineers are around to help. We also have to contend with go/degrowth and shrink our service footprints, so you’ll see more G services go on device. I know of several TLs planning on leaving in the next couple of months, so the Google brain drain is well underway.
tein 2y ago
Ugh. Same as with Google Photos where you can only see a worldwide heatmap of where you've been from your phone and not on the web. I hate that I cannot use these features on a much larger screen where I can be more comfortable using them.
Kiro 2y ago
Normally when Timeline is talked about the comments are all extremely negative, making it sound like no-one wants this feature due to privacy concerns.
- tim333 2y ago
  People love to bitch about privacy even if it doesn't affect them and usually when they don't even use the product in question. I like timeline - the privacy thing is a calculated trade off.
isiahl 2y ago
I have an actual question about the implementation of this. It currently seems like there is no way to maintain your location history if you switch device platforms. Your on device history seems to be synced to iCloud, but if you switch from iOS -> Android, it seems like your SOL?
- ayhanfuat 2y ago
  It says "Timeline backs up to Google servers over Wi-Fi when your device is charging and idle." on an iphone so I don't think it is synced to icloud.
darkwater 2y ago
So, the real and useful bit of information in TFA is that Big G is transitioning the Location History / Timeline service to be on-device only, thus removing the web version of it (since it will be tied to the device generating the coordinates material). And the comments are all dunking on "yet another Google dead project" "someone who was already promoted doesn't care" etc etc etc. You can dunk on Google here asking, for example, if "is there any possible secret agenda behind this?" "What's the catch?" "No way they are giving up on that data!", at least it would be in topic with the article.
- chankstein38 2y ago
  Yeah I came here ready to be mad another useful feature was being sunsetted and as much as I'd rather not have to view it all from my phone, if they're telling the truth that this data will stay on-device now, this is actually pretty cool!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Andrex 2y ago
  How fragile is the local data? Will it be preserved if I switch phones? What about past events that aren't on the current phone? What if I use two phones? This takes a unified view and fragments it for spurious user privacy benefits (when we know Google is still collecting and holding all the information needed anyways).
  - darkwater 2y ago
    you can optionally use an e2e encrypted backup to restore it from another phone. I guess the key to encrypt it will be in your google account data.
throw7 2y ago
I use this all the time. Timeline on the web is incredibly useful. sigh.
nullc 2y ago
Perhaps finally google is starting to see collecting enormous amount of private data-- which they have to serve up in response to administrative subpoenas-- as a liability for them and not just for the users.
driscoll42 2y ago
While I get the privacy argument, I hate the trend towards mobile-only with the internet. With the Timeline it's so much easier to use my computer and see a giant map of the world and a mouse to poke around.
thisisauserid 2y ago
Does this maybe help alleviate Google having to deal with warrants for tracking suspects or not really?
nytesky 2y ago
Will on device timeline have export?
- ayhanfuat 2y ago
  Yes. I got the notification yesterday that it will be on device from now on, I agreed to a couple of backup settings and now I have an export option which creates a location history JSON file. Example entry: { "endTime" : "2024-06-03T13:00:00.000Z", "startTime" : "2024-06-03T11:00:00.000Z", "timelinePath" : [ { "point" : "geo:38.383631,27.147296", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "46" }, { "point" : "geo:38.382012,27.146800", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "47" }, { "point" : "geo:38.379945,27.148987", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "49" }, { "point" : "geo:38.379359,27.150270", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "51" } ] }
codemac 2y ago
Any great alternative options? I have used this obsessively for many years, and removing the web version (and requiring device->device transitions) makes my phone a spof for this data I truly like to keep.
- johtso 2y ago
  Right.. I always assumed that one day I could dump my location history into a geospatial database and query it. Now I'm hearing that you can't even get historical data through takeout anymore?
k8svet 2y ago
WTF?!?! The one bit of data I let Google track, because that map is so insanely useful and cool. Seeing where I was standing on a given day of my Europe tour, and being able to trace my steps on that day where I remember "I started at the market and walked west and found that cute cafe". Somehow this is the first product shutdown by Google I'm affected by. Good thing they're letting us export this data in an open format /s.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  They do let you export it in JSON. ask chatgpt to write some python to turn it into kml and it manages it first time with no bugs. However, based on other commenters here, you need to export it before enabling the new location history feature.
curt15 2y ago
Will the Google Maps Android API be enhanced to let me access timeline info programatically?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SkyPuncher 2y ago
This was one of the most useful “secondary” features of Google Maps. When I had to track miles for work, I’d just hop on at the end of the year and go day-by-day.
londons_explore 2y ago
> The company is switching to an on-device approach that is more private and works on each phone independently. >After transitioning, users will be able to back up and restore their Timeline data to avoid losing it when switching devices. To me, that means "Google doesn't want this data on their servers", which probably translates to "We can't keep this data from law enforcement, and that is not what users expect/want, and it is harming our users, so we won't store it at all". We should be cheering this.
- grujicd 2y ago
  There's nothing to cheer for. Google is removing that feature for their own reasons, not mine. You could always turn it off (or not turn on in the first place) if privacy concerns outweighed benefits for you. For the rest of us this is a net loss.
grujicd 2y ago
Real question is will Google pay the price of removing this feature? This definitely reduces lock-in. Friends with iPhone had problems with gmaps location history so I never really considered Apple phone for this feature alone. Now I'm more open to that option, especially if Apple maps has a similar feature (does it?). It looks like a small thing, but what happens when you switch ecosystem on number of apps/services you're using, maybe you won't use Chrome on the iPhone, maybe you won't sync browser history anymore because of that, maybe you'll use Apple maps, you'll abandon Google photos, maybe you'll have less use for Google account when not all services are Google's? And in the end maybe you'll find that some other search engine is the same or better than Google and de-google completely? And that's where the Google's billions come from. How could they risk this? It's a death by thousand (actually much less) cuts? If this is my company I would be very worried that one of these cuts will be too much, and once users start going away it would be very hard to win them back. I never thought I would say this, but at this point I'm sad that Microsoft didn't find a way to remain in the phone race.

181 points by donatj 2y ago

And another one! I actually used this regularly on my PC to remember places I'd gone to on trips, or back in time. > The company is switching to an on-device approach that is more private and works on each phone independently. They're literally harvesting all of your location history, transaction histories, etc. What exactly is more private about doing it on your phone? It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively.

prepend 2y ago
They mean “more private” as in your data are less useful for things like exporting into tools or third parties. I wish google would just focus on apis and tools for me to work with my data as interoperable as possible. But there’s no money in this, so I guess it’s not a priority.
asah 2y ago
MORE private, not completely private. I'd argue that anything entered into a computer is not completely private, and since location can be inferred from environmental signals (e.g. cell towers, other devices, webcams, etc) location is one of the least private types of data.
cimnine 2y ago
> And another one! I actually used this regularly on my PC to remember places I'd gone to on trips, or back in time. Me too. High-noon to engage Google Takeout [1] – so that I at least have a copy of all that data. Off-topic: TIL, that Google Takeout can do regular backups automatically for up to one year when you link it to some cloud storage account (GDrive, Dropbox, One Drive, Box). [1] https://takeout.google.com https://takeout.google.com
- chris_wot 2y ago
  Wait till they remove Google Takeout
  - WesolyKubeczek 2y ago
    Don't give them ideas. Although... EU will smack them with fines for it. And probably California, too.
    - GeoAtreides 2y ago
      > EU will smack them with fines for it. And probably California, too. Kind and respectful reminder that HN does not permit the users to delete their data or download it. It is against the law in EU (and probably California), but it hasn't been legally tested yet.
      - j-bos 2y ago
        Hn is an interesting one because there's not even an email associated. Though I imagine they have logs of IPs and such. Still, an equivalent feels like ad networks that are everywhere though don't seem to have a way to delete data.
      - LopovJack 2y ago
        Doesn't that refer to personal data only? If you did not provide personal info to HN, would GDPR still apply?
        pajko 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten#European...
        senordevnyc 2y ago
        YC / HN are in the US, not the EU. Yes, I know, Europeans think their laws automatically apply globally, but laws are meaningless without enforcement. Hence why 99% of US companies can safely ignore GDPR unless they're operating in the EU (which HN is not).
WesolyKubeczek 2y ago
They are harvesting it for themselves, not for you.
afavour 2y ago
> It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively. Isn’t that what “more private and works on each device independently” implies? Obviously we need more detail on the implementation here but AFAIK Timeline is the only time I’ve seen a full accounting of my location in the cloud. There will, I’m sure, be a lot of ways it can still be inferred: purchases, which IP address I’m on etc etc but if Google is stepping away from constantly streaming your phone GPS location to the cloud that’s surely a good thing.
- DaveSchmindel 2y ago
  > ...Timeline is the only time I've seen a full accounting of my location in the cloud. Yes, that _you've_ seen. I think the person you're replying to is referring to use cases of your location data that you don't see.
  - afavour 2y ago
    That feels like a kind of useless conversation though, there are no facts involved. Once Google had implemented the change they’ve outlined here someone can plug their phone into Wireshark and see what, if anything, has changed. Then there’s a conversation to be had.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      Wireshark would likely be unhelpful. Everything runs encrypted.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    Wouldn't they have to reveal that in GDPR requests?
- fauigerzigerk 2y ago
  >> It's not like your entire maps history will be stored on the device exclusively. >Isn’t that what “more private and works on each device independently” implies? Probably, but I don't think it should be taken to mean that location data stays on the device. Surely, Google will continue to use location data for ad targeting. Location is also used in countless other places such as Photos. The Google Maps timeline is a specific database and this particular database will be stored on-device. I don't think it changes anything for how Google uses location data more generally.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gostsamo 2y ago
Spousal abuse works well through this feature. Not sure if this is it or privacy theatre, but it will force potential domestic stalkers to become more visible and/or to put more effort.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Am I the only one who feels that "domestic abuse" is becoming the new "think of the children" in computing? The problem is serious, but if we follow the logic of removing any and all features that could aid the abuser in tracking their victim or preventing them from getting help, then we'd have to remove a lot of functionality considered basic. This includes e.g. security warnings that you've logged in from a new location/machine, or an dashboard showing active sessions. Hell, this probably includes location tags and dates on photos in your own phone gallery. Abusers, especially spouses, have a lot of options on their disposal (including that the assumption that phone is a personal device no longer holds). I'm not sure how is removing web access to Timeline really helping here.
  - gostsamo 2y ago
    It is very likely that you are indeed the only one. "Think of the children" is aimed at eroding privacy while this feature is aimed at increasing it and the goals are diametrically opposite. I used the spousal example because it was the shortest path between web access and demonstrating potential harm. However, bad browser extensions and stallen credentials can lead to the same result if the attacker is interested in using your history against you.
bux93 2y ago
What's "more private" is that Google won't need to respond to apporax. a million daily requests for information from law enforcement(?) anymore. Cf. whatsapp - they've been encrypting messages for years, but only recently started encrypting (if you enable it) the cloud backups at google. Encrypting the data that went to their own servers was a higher priority. And they could just send law enforcement to the cloud storage provider. Are those two things related? Curious minds wonder.
deleted 2y ago
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kcb 2y ago
Spent many hours reminiscing over my past timeline. So disappointed to hear this.
- tedmiston 2y ago
  It would be cool if someone made a similar minimal open source desktop UI that could run on the data export from Google Takeout [or whatever the future export mechanism turns out to be].

eka1 2y ago

Was this change made to comply with regulation or save on cloud resources?

datadrivenangel 2y ago
That google maps feature was probably supported by a team of 5 that they decided they didn't want to use for that anymore. And some PM decided they could get a promo by 'unifying interfaces to simplify and enhance the user experience'
deleted 2y ago
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beardyw 2y ago
My understanding is that they get a lot of demands from law enforcement for this data, so they would rather not have it.
- LanceH 2y ago
  I didn't see anything in the article that said they are (for sure) not retaining this data. "Google could purge some or all of your location history when it sunsets Timeline’s web access" -- or they might not. It just won't be available to the user.
  - darkwater 2y ago
    What would be the point of moving to an on-device approach AND keep the data remotely as well? Just keep it remotely as it currently is, no?

semolino 2y ago

One can only assume that GOOG is still collecting/inferring device location whenever possible, and putting the pieces together on the back end to paint a broader picture of the user. Removing the user-facing feature that shows all this collected data is akin to the classic tech company manoeuvre of adding an "isDeleted" attribute to data, hiding it, and keeping it in the 'base when a client requests to delete something. Out of sight, out of mind!

surajrmal 2y ago
By removing the user facing features like this, wouldn't it become challenging to comply with gdpr while still collecting this information?
- semolino 2y ago
  Yes, certainly, but Google only needs to appear that they are complying with GDPR. Their incentive is still to collect as much information as possible for their advertising partners. There are many loopholes for a company to use and sell location data while claiming it stays on users' devices, or remains encrypted while kept on company servers.

martyvis 2y ago

Timeline has been so useful. I have used it as a way to recall where we stopped in holidays, check where I was when I made a purchase, and to help diarise work related car trips for tax purposes. Having a small computer a with you with lots of sensors on it that is able to record images, sounds, and log location is infinitely more useful when it is searchable in an archive. I don't want to have to do that searching on a small screen.

afavour 2y ago
I started using Foursquare’s Swarm app for recording locations on holiday etc. it works well enough even if it has a load of social nonsense I don’t need or use.
- xp84 2y ago
  I was a longtime user of 4sq/swarm in its heyday, but eventually gave up on it mainly because they never could figure out how to automatically check me in — like Google Timeline does. The whole product has the stench of death about it these days, though. It seems like it’s a hair’s breadth from being discontinued, and its lack of any changes in the past 7 years or so makes me suspect that they have about half a FTE working on it at most.
CharlieDigital 2y ago
I built a web app last year for planning travel but it's also great for tracking your travels and story telling. We use it for both (plan and log). Check out https://turas.app https://turas.app. Our trip: https://turas.app/s/taiwan/0vylwa7K https://turas.app/s/taiwan/0vylwa7K
- ebiester 2y ago
  I've had that in the back of my mind since 2008 and even started building it once but couldn't find a revenue model that made sense - I like that you just decided not to bother with the revenue model!

conradfr 2y ago

[flagged]

slig 2y ago
It's almost as if they don't want you to do that and instead use their search even for walking distances.

chris_wot 2y ago

If you don’t start using new Google products, you won’t have to worry about when they will remove the service.

drpossum 2y ago
I'm not sure what this comment is relevant to. Timelines is not "new"
- mistercool 2y ago
  At one point it was
- bitcharmer 2y ago
  It's relevant to all google services
- internet2000 2y ago
  The best time to follow GP's advice was when Timelines launched. The second best time is now.
rnts08 2y ago
Words of wisdom.

duegreg 2y ago

Am I the only one who choose convenience over privacy? This should be a checkbox and not export and import.

agluszak 2y ago
The thing is - in this case you only lose convenience and gain nothing in terms of privacy, because G will have access to that data anyway

pk20000 2y ago

Right. They are doing it for privacy. Maybe also thinking of the children. I really used it on the web. Was looking forward to the email they sent in the beginning of each month. Bastards!

LanceH 2y ago
Privacy as in, "keep it private from the users".

aeonik 2y ago

Great, this means I'm going to need to learn GIS tools... Thanks Google, I guess it was over due.

lentil_soup 2y ago

Is there any decent replacement to this kind of thing? I quite enjoyed looking through my timeline reliving special days or holidays

yoavm 2y ago
OwnTracks (https://owntracks.org/ https://owntracks.org/) seems quite well maintained, is FOSS, has iOS and Android clients and the server can be installed in one click if you're running Yunohost.
- cromka 2y ago
  Looks like it's fairly easy to import location history from Google, too: https://www.technowizardry.net/2024/01/migrating-from-google-location-history-to-owntracks/ https://www.technowizardry.net/2024/01/migrating-from-google...
- dspillett 2y ago
  That looks like it'll either be much lower resolution than Google's timeline (manual or 15 minute checks) or will consume a lot more battery life than I'd be happy with (due to relying on GPS, turning it on for a location fix every minute). Given wireless is turned on 24/7 for most people, it seems to me that a better method would be to cache APs that the user sees, so that if the same set of APs (or a significant subset there-of) are visible there is no need to ask for the GPS parts to be turned on. Obviously that is more work and there are some complexities to account for¹²³ but this is how Google's timeline uses little power. They have an centralised international database of AP locations (slurped while collecting images for Maps/Streetview and no doubt other sources) but that isn't really needed – you can just keep a list of APs seen recently and where on each users own device⁴. It isn't something I'd have time or desire to develop. You'd have the faf of getting it approved in an appstore, dealing with supporting users that just don't understand, fun with some phones⁵ overly aggressively killing apps not matter what the user selects in order to make grandiose battery life claims (and users blaming that on your app), etc., but if someone else wants to (especially if it is an open source and/or stalking free app) feel free to take the idea, and I'll consider using your implementation! --- [1] APs move or get renamed [2] Assuming APs are identified by SSID there will be some names that are the same in multiple locations [3] Some APs constantly move by design, i.e. those on public transport. [4] Not having a central DB just means each device doesn't immediately benefit from the location cache avoiding GPS use when visiting a new area, but each device will quickly build a view of local APs for any area it enters. [5] I'm looking at you, Xiaomi!

KeplerBoy 2y ago

Ugh, this is annoying. Especially since the feature probably can't easily be replicated by a third party app. I wouldn't be surprised if the APIs used to get a rough estimate of the position in the background without invoking battery draining GPS are private.

behnamoh 2y ago

Add it to https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

aembleton 2y ago
But it's not been killed, just moved to the device rather than the cloud

nalekberov 2y ago

> To keep users’ sensitive location data more private and secure, Google Maps will sunset web access for its Timeline feature in the coming months. Google is the last company I will ever trust with my data on earth. They keep literally everything about their users, what makes e.g. email less sensitive than location data? What I smell here is there is probably something else Google is trying to rephrase in more "acceptable" way.

ipsento606 2y ago

This is one of my most-used google maps features on web. This absolutely sucks.

m1nes 2y ago

I am so happy to have migrated everything from Google Cloud

davidmurdoch 2y ago

Anyone here work for Google in a capacity that can explain why they remove features that are oft used and that people love? Things like Reader, location-based reminders ("remind me when I get home to..."), controlling my oven via the Assistant, Fitbit with Google workspace accounts, and now Maps timeline. Like... I will just find replacements for all those and further myself even more from the Google ecosystem. What benefits does Google get out of killing these popular features?

klodolph 2y ago
It comes down to “the project doesn’t have enough staffing to keep operating” in the end, and those decisions get made way higher up. Any engineer at Google has no visibility into that. Engineers at Google only understand how understaffed projects get shut down—it’s because there isn’t enough staff on the project to keep updating to work with Google’s changing infrastructure. This isn’t the root cause, though, it’s just a contributing factor. Maybe if Google infrastructure changed less, some of these projects would stick around longer with reduced staff.
- bitcharmer 2y ago
  How much staffing does a feature like that even require? It's not like it even requires any maintenance at this point. They could just leave it alone.
  - roland35 2y ago
    I think the issue is that the underlying dependencies are changing, so even if the feature set never changes it still requires some amount of engineering work to keep it up and running.
  - myth_drannon 2y ago
    Depends on the tech stack. If it's JS/TS then it's a nightmare to maintain, with all the Critical and High security issues. Packages that are not updated anymore you need to replace with something else. You can't just leave it alone, it's easier to shut it down and save yourself another accident and subsequent postmortem.

pspeter3 2y ago

I tried to export my Timeline history but I cannot get the full version. My Pixel 8 has the full version but no way to export. My iPhone does have a way to export but does not have the full version.

wslh 2y ago

It is clear now that Google "don't be evil" [1] turned into equal or worst than Microsoft? The Microsoft antitrust case now seems like a joke. Zillions of things happened from that time that the law system cannot digest as "easy" as Internet Explorer as a monopolistic move. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil

ChoGGi 2y ago

Fuck sake Google

geoGoog 2y ago

Throwaway for very lawyer cat legal reasons. Layoffs and attrition has gutted some teams and puts pressure on what and cannot be maintained. This is compounded when teams are offshored to India or Poland and none of the original engineers are around to help. We also have to contend with go/degrowth and shrink our service footprints, so you’ll see more G services go on device. I know of several TLs planning on leaving in the next couple of months, so the Google brain drain is well underway.

tein 2y ago

Ugh. Same as with Google Photos where you can only see a worldwide heatmap of where you've been from your phone and not on the web. I hate that I cannot use these features on a much larger screen where I can be more comfortable using them.

Kiro 2y ago

Normally when Timeline is talked about the comments are all extremely negative, making it sound like no-one wants this feature due to privacy concerns.

tim333 2y ago
People love to bitch about privacy even if it doesn't affect them and usually when they don't even use the product in question. I like timeline - the privacy thing is a calculated trade off.

isiahl 2y ago

I have an actual question about the implementation of this. It currently seems like there is no way to maintain your location history if you switch device platforms. Your on device history seems to be synced to iCloud, but if you switch from iOS -> Android, it seems like your SOL?

ayhanfuat 2y ago
It says "Timeline backs up to Google servers over Wi-Fi when your device is charging and idle." on an iphone so I don't think it is synced to icloud.

darkwater 2y ago

So, the real and useful bit of information in TFA is that Big G is transitioning the Location History / Timeline service to be on-device only, thus removing the web version of it (since it will be tied to the device generating the coordinates material). And the comments are all dunking on "yet another Google dead project" "someone who was already promoted doesn't care" etc etc etc. You can dunk on Google here asking, for example, if "is there any possible secret agenda behind this?" "What's the catch?" "No way they are giving up on that data!", at least it would be in topic with the article.

chankstein38 2y ago
Yeah I came here ready to be mad another useful feature was being sunsetted and as much as I'd rather not have to view it all from my phone, if they're telling the truth that this data will stay on-device now, this is actually pretty cool!
- deleted 2y ago
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Andrex 2y ago
How fragile is the local data? Will it be preserved if I switch phones? What about past events that aren't on the current phone? What if I use two phones? This takes a unified view and fragments it for spurious user privacy benefits (when we know Google is still collecting and holding all the information needed anyways).
- darkwater 2y ago
  you can optionally use an e2e encrypted backup to restore it from another phone. I guess the key to encrypt it will be in your google account data.

throw7 2y ago

I use this all the time. Timeline on the web is incredibly useful. sigh.

nullc 2y ago

Perhaps finally google is starting to see collecting enormous amount of private data-- which they have to serve up in response to administrative subpoenas-- as a liability for them and not just for the users.

driscoll42 2y ago

While I get the privacy argument, I hate the trend towards mobile-only with the internet. With the Timeline it's so much easier to use my computer and see a giant map of the world and a mouse to poke around.

thisisauserid 2y ago

Does this maybe help alleviate Google having to deal with warrants for tracking suspects or not really?

nytesky 2y ago

Will on device timeline have export?

ayhanfuat 2y ago
Yes. I got the notification yesterday that it will be on device from now on, I agreed to a couple of backup settings and now I have an export option which creates a location history JSON file. Example entry: { "endTime" : "2024-06-03T13:00:00.000Z", "startTime" : "2024-06-03T11:00:00.000Z", "timelinePath" : [ { "point" : "geo:38.383631,27.147296", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "46" }, { "point" : "geo:38.382012,27.146800", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "47" }, { "point" : "geo:38.379945,27.148987", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "49" }, { "point" : "geo:38.379359,27.150270", "durationMinutesOffsetFromStartTime" : "51" } ] }

codemac 2y ago

Any great alternative options? I have used this obsessively for many years, and removing the web version (and requiring device->device transitions) makes my phone a spof for this data I truly like to keep.

johtso 2y ago
Right.. I always assumed that one day I could dump my location history into a geospatial database and query it. Now I'm hearing that you can't even get historical data through takeout anymore?

k8svet 2y ago

WTF?!?! The one bit of data I let Google track, because that map is so insanely useful and cool. Seeing where I was standing on a given day of my Europe tour, and being able to trace my steps on that day where I remember "I started at the market and walked west and found that cute cafe". Somehow this is the first product shutdown by Google I'm affected by. Good thing they're letting us export this data in an open format /s.

londons_explore 2y ago
They do let you export it in JSON. ask chatgpt to write some python to turn it into kml and it manages it first time with no bugs. However, based on other commenters here, you need to export it before enabling the new location history feature.

curt15 2y ago

Will the Google Maps Android API be enhanced to let me access timeline info programatically?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

SkyPuncher 2y ago

This was one of the most useful “secondary” features of Google Maps. When I had to track miles for work, I’d just hop on at the end of the year and go day-by-day.

londons_explore 2y ago

> The company is switching to an on-device approach that is more private and works on each phone independently. >After transitioning, users will be able to back up and restore their Timeline data to avoid losing it when switching devices. To me, that means "Google doesn't want this data on their servers", which probably translates to "We can't keep this data from law enforcement, and that is not what users expect/want, and it is harming our users, so we won't store it at all". We should be cheering this.

grujicd 2y ago
There's nothing to cheer for. Google is removing that feature for their own reasons, not mine. You could always turn it off (or not turn on in the first place) if privacy concerns outweighed benefits for you. For the rest of us this is a net loss.

grujicd 2y ago

Real question is will Google pay the price of removing this feature? This definitely reduces lock-in. Friends with iPhone had problems with gmaps location history so I never really considered Apple phone for this feature alone. Now I'm more open to that option, especially if Apple maps has a similar feature (does it?). It looks like a small thing, but what happens when you switch ecosystem on number of apps/services you're using, maybe you won't use Chrome on the iPhone, maybe you won't sync browser history anymore because of that, maybe you'll use Apple maps, you'll abandon Google photos, maybe you'll have less use for Google account when not all services are Google's? And in the end maybe you'll find that some other search engine is the same or better than Google and de-google completely? And that's where the Google's billions come from. How could they risk this? It's a death by thousand (actually much less) cuts? If this is my company I would be very worried that one of these cuts will be too much, and once users start going away it would be very hard to win them back. I never thought I would say this, but at this point I'm sad that Microsoft didn't find a way to remain in the phone race.