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Ask HN: Should exams allow a level of AI help inversely proportional to your IQ?

1 points by amichail 2y ago

This system could even allow schools to teach more advanced material to all students.

NetworkPerson 2y ago
This leads to a terrible future outcome. Person A and B both graduated with high marks. Person A is truly brilliant and will be a real asset to your company. Person B figured out how to use AI to get the answers the school wanted but doesn’t understand anything and will be a hindrance to the company. Unfortunately, you don’t get to know which one is which, just that they came out of school with similar marks. Best of luck. Also supposing in this situation that AI can’t really perform the job duties. If it can, don’t bother hiring either person.
- amichail 2y ago
  AI help can be giving hints instead of completely solving a problem for you.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Back when I was a T.A. in physics I'd be rich if I had a nickel for every time somebody told me "I understand the concepts but I just can't do the problem" and then, when I worked with them to debug their answer, found that they really got the concepts backwards. One big theme I see is that people want something emotionally out of physics that it just can't give and if you are misaligned on these you are going to accomplish nothing even if you can do the math: https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Causes-beyond-Physics-Streater/dp/3540365818 https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Causes-beyond-Physics-Streater/d...
  - NetworkPerson 2y ago
    Even to the extent of giving hints, you create an unhealthy learning environment. “You have the potential of being smarter (higher IQ), so no help for you. Go figure it out yourself because we’re fairly sure you can.” vs “Oh you poor dumb fool. You’re obviously never going to be capable of supporting yourself so we’ll make sure to carry you there with these extra handicaps. Don’t worry about trying to work harder, we don’t think you can.” Over dramatized but you get the point. One group is mad about the support the other gets. And that other group loses incentive to really try for things since the solutions, or at least the paths to them, are always sitting there waiting.
    - amichail 2y ago
      If the level of AI help is inversely proportional to your current GPA (instead of IQ), then perhaps this issue will be addressed? If you want your GPA to have a lower AI help associated with it, then you will try harder.
- shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  It's that dystopia where everyone is given artificial handicaps to achieve total equality in all things. In this case, you're handicapping the smarter student by depriving them of the AI the dumber student gets. If the whole point of exams is to test competence, the test becomes totally useless.
PaulHoule 2y ago
I'd note that, for political reasons, IQ is disused in pedagogy. This extends to standardized tests in general. It is often framed around class and race, but I think the real enemy of standardized tests is the "legacy admission" who can't test his or her way out of a paper bag. Ever other element in society is corruptible, people can use their social capital to influence teachers and school administers. Certainly test prep can give people familiarity with the test which helps up to a point but for a certain kind of student the only way to get a good test score is to hire a ringer to take the test for you. When objective tests are used to assign kids to gifted programs the usual result is an increase in minority and low-income participation because groups that have high social capital are better equipped to manipulate subjective decisions.
- amichail 2y ago
  Instead of IQ, you can make the level of AI help inversely proportional to your current GPA.
beardyw 2y ago
Yes. Anyone over zero gets no AI help.
verdverm 2y ago
What's the point of exams then? The better way to think about this is as having a TA available 24/7, except during testing. This artificial TA should help guide students to gain understanding, rather then simple hints or answer/mistake guiding
JohnFen 2y ago
Wouldn't doing that eliminate the entire purpose of exams? The point of them is to test your knowledge, not that of an AI.

1 points by amichail 2y ago

This system could even allow schools to teach more advanced material to all students.

This leads to a terrible future outcome. Person A and B both graduated with high marks. Person A is truly brilliant and will be a real asset to your company. Person B figured out how to use AI to get the answers the school wanted but doesn’t understand anything and will be a hindrance to the company. Unfortunately, you don’t get to know which one is which, just that they came out of school with similar marks. Best of luck. Also supposing in this situation that AI can’t really perform the job duties. If it can, don’t bother hiring either person.

amichail 2y ago
AI help can be giving hints instead of completely solving a problem for you.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Back when I was a T.A. in physics I'd be rich if I had a nickel for every time somebody told me "I understand the concepts but I just can't do the problem" and then, when I worked with them to debug their answer, found that they really got the concepts backwards. One big theme I see is that people want something emotionally out of physics that it just can't give and if you are misaligned on these you are going to accomplish nothing even if you can do the math: https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Causes-beyond-Physics-Streater/dp/3540365818 https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Causes-beyond-Physics-Streater/d...
- NetworkPerson 2y ago
  Even to the extent of giving hints, you create an unhealthy learning environment. “You have the potential of being smarter (higher IQ), so no help for you. Go figure it out yourself because we’re fairly sure you can.” vs “Oh you poor dumb fool. You’re obviously never going to be capable of supporting yourself so we’ll make sure to carry you there with these extra handicaps. Don’t worry about trying to work harder, we don’t think you can.” Over dramatized but you get the point. One group is mad about the support the other gets. And that other group loses incentive to really try for things since the solutions, or at least the paths to them, are always sitting there waiting.
  - amichail 2y ago
    If the level of AI help is inversely proportional to your current GPA (instead of IQ), then perhaps this issue will be addressed? If you want your GPA to have a lower AI help associated with it, then you will try harder.
shrimp_emoji 2y ago
It's that dystopia where everyone is given artificial handicaps to achieve total equality in all things. In this case, you're handicapping the smarter student by depriving them of the AI the dumber student gets. If the whole point of exams is to test competence, the test becomes totally useless.

PaulHoule 2y ago

I'd note that, for political reasons, IQ is disused in pedagogy. This extends to standardized tests in general. It is often framed around class and race, but I think the real enemy of standardized tests is the "legacy admission" who can't test his or her way out of a paper bag. Ever other element in society is corruptible, people can use their social capital to influence teachers and school administers. Certainly test prep can give people familiarity with the test which helps up to a point but for a certain kind of student the only way to get a good test score is to hire a ringer to take the test for you. When objective tests are used to assign kids to gifted programs the usual result is an increase in minority and low-income participation because groups that have high social capital are better equipped to manipulate subjective decisions.

amichail 2y ago
Instead of IQ, you can make the level of AI help inversely proportional to your current GPA.

beardyw 2y ago

Yes. Anyone over zero gets no AI help.

verdverm 2y ago

What's the point of exams then? The better way to think about this is as having a TA available 24/7, except during testing. This artificial TA should help guide students to gain understanding, rather then simple hints or answer/mistake guiding

JohnFen 2y ago

Wouldn't doing that eliminate the entire purpose of exams? The point of them is to test your knowledge, not that of an AI.