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they should test these augmentation techs on people who ride horses as it requires using thought and micro gestures to operate an entire second body in real tim

they should test these augmentation techs on people who ride horses as it requires using thought and micro gestures to operate an entire second body in real time using each limb independently.

jcul 2y ago
I used to feel similar about riding a motorcycle. Of course it's not the same as it's a machine, not a living animal your are communicating with. But so much it feels like it becomes an extension of your body and you just move by pure thought. Similar to using a game controller I guess but more of a whole body experience.
- motohagiography 2y ago
  good observation, motorcycles are definitely the next closest thing as far as complete machine extensions of the body go vs. say, surfing or snowboarding where the body is unmediated by the engine or gyroscopic feedback in its relationship to gravity. the difference between an animal and an instrument is in the expression of intent that is parsed by another being. the sensors interpreted by a computer are a feedback mechanism more like a thermostat or ABS, but now with AI we're starting to challenge our understanding of those differences.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    What do you mean by mediated by the engine? In snowboarding the board really is an engine. You can define how much friction you give to the slope or your angle to it and therefore throttle. You also engage the board in a carve and get energy out of the carve in transition and this can be controlled by the length of the carve or how you shift your weight or engage your legs. Not to mention the route you decide to take on the mountain and the effect of that topology and snow conditions. This is true for skis as well.
cromulent 2y ago
This is an excellent observation. Dressage (for example) is a set of evolutionary constraints about controlling a 600kg similarly trained million dollar animal through tiny movements (mostly in your thighs and buttocks) in order to win prestigious prizes including Olympic medals. The horses react with puzzlement if you are not trained to a similar level - if you are a junior rider, expert horses are incompatible.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  How does an ‘easy’ horse react to these movements? Not at all? Is this what they meant in westerns/literature by “a good horse?”
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Not at all is fairly close. Think "beginner friendly" (phone?) vs "expert friendly" (nix?) interactions. "A good horse" is actually one that matches your level, or is only slightly above, whatever that may currently be. Note that Teitelman eventually gave up on getting machines to DWIM, and scratched that itch by doing dog agility instead. (the most indirect control I've seen was someone from the local extension program, mounted on horseback, whistling to his dogs in order to instruct them to herd a flock of geese in slaloms/eights around a set of traffic cones. Roping horses still need to be doing their jobs even after their rider has left the saddle and is on foot to tie/doctor the roped critter.)

they should test these augmentation techs on people who ride horses as it requires using thought and micro gestures to operate an entire second body in real time using each limb independently.

jcul 2y ago

I used to feel similar about riding a motorcycle. Of course it's not the same as it's a machine, not a living animal your are communicating with. But so much it feels like it becomes an extension of your body and you just move by pure thought. Similar to using a game controller I guess but more of a whole body experience.

motohagiography 2y ago
good observation, motorcycles are definitely the next closest thing as far as complete machine extensions of the body go vs. say, surfing or snowboarding where the body is unmediated by the engine or gyroscopic feedback in its relationship to gravity. the difference between an animal and an instrument is in the expression of intent that is parsed by another being. the sensors interpreted by a computer are a feedback mechanism more like a thermostat or ABS, but now with AI we're starting to challenge our understanding of those differences.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  What do you mean by mediated by the engine? In snowboarding the board really is an engine. You can define how much friction you give to the slope or your angle to it and therefore throttle. You also engage the board in a carve and get energy out of the carve in transition and this can be controlled by the length of the carve or how you shift your weight or engage your legs. Not to mention the route you decide to take on the mountain and the effect of that topology and snow conditions. This is true for skis as well.

cromulent 2y ago

This is an excellent observation. Dressage (for example) is a set of evolutionary constraints about controlling a 600kg similarly trained million dollar animal through tiny movements (mostly in your thighs and buttocks) in order to win prestigious prizes including Olympic medals. The horses react with puzzlement if you are not trained to a similar level - if you are a junior rider, expert horses are incompatible.

kjkjadksj 2y ago
How does an ‘easy’ horse react to these movements? Not at all? Is this what they meant in westerns/literature by “a good horse?”
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Not at all is fairly close. Think "beginner friendly" (phone?) vs "expert friendly" (nix?) interactions. "A good horse" is actually one that matches your level, or is only slightly above, whatever that may currently be. Note that Teitelman eventually gave up on getting machines to DWIM, and scratched that itch by doing dog agility instead. (the most indirect control I've seen was someone from the local extension program, mounted on horseback, whistling to his dogs in order to instruct them to herd a flock of geese in slaloms/eights around a set of traffic cones. Roping horses still need to be doing their jobs even after their rider has left the saddle and is on foot to tie/doctor the roped critter.)