5 ms·

I hope this passes. I want to see the riots when EU cell phone consumers have to pay for text messages again. Some men just want to watch the world burn...

beardyw 2y ago
Does anyone have to pay for text messages?
- isodev 2y ago
  People often forget just how much we get from the EU that's taken for granted. Everything from practicalities like no roaming costs and consumer protection, all the way to freedom of movement, peace and overall stability.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    I don't think the EU says anything about how much texts should cost... Edit: I am *obviously* not talking about surcharges for roaming but cost in plans, which I think is the point of the OP when he asks who pays for texts. Pricing is not regulated and has nothing to do with the EU.
    - isodev 2y ago
      It does, quite a lot. For example, it says you should pay the same regardless where you are in the EU (roaming), it also says you get a clear and transparent pricing for your mobile service, it also says all kinds of things about your rights to cancel, change providers, get refunds etc... you should look it up.
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        Why the snark? Especially since you're beside the point, so let me rephrase with the help of my lawyer: the EU does not say anything about how much consumers should be charged for text messages by their operator (i.e. "cost"). This was clear from my previous comment...
        vasco 2y ago
        > If you continue to spend more time abroad than you do at home and your roaming consumption continues to exceed your domestic usage your operator may start charging you extra for your roaming use. The surcharges (excluding VAT) are capped at: > €0.022 per minute of voice calls made > €0.004 per text message > €2 per GB of data (cap in 2022, decreasing over time to €1 / GB, which will be the maximum surcharge from 2027 onwards) https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-telecoms/mobile-roaming-costs/indexamp_en.htm https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c...
        mytailorisrich 2y ago
        So where does it say how much operators can charge in their plans? Nowhere. They are free to say texts are free (included in plan), or texts are charged at 10 euros each, whatever. The EU only limits surcharges when roaming to other EU countries. Jeez, guys. Edit: I am not backing away from anything, I was rephrasing to sustain your strange cross-examination. You guys are being unecessarily aggressive and argumentative over a simple point. "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "don't cross-examine." It's Sunday, guys. Do something positive with your time. Bye.
        vasco 2y ago
        So you're backing away from your original stance of: "I don't think the EU says anything about how much texts should cost." Into a weaker form of "The EU only limits surcharges when roaming to other EU countries.". This was my only comment because your first position is factually incorrect, there are situations in which the EU defines how much texts can cost. edit: not sure where you see the aggressiveness
        Y_Y 2y ago
        The funny part of this is that I avoid such charges by pointlessly using lots of data in home country to account for usage in other EU countries.
  - user32489318 2y ago
    Yes, but also the (1) push of PNR to keep a complete record of your travel and movements within the EU. Dutch train operator NS is operating in spirit of the future “PNR” already and makes it harder and harder to buy “anonymous” train ticket (even for local 15min journeys). The so called anonymous card, is linked to your bank account used to top it up. What if you prefer to use cash in your daily life (2), for envelope-style budgeting? Well, your bank will let inform the authorities of your anomaly. You will start receiving monthly questionnaires asking to backup your behavior and why you might want 2-3-4K eur in cash every month.
    - vasco 2y ago
      All that people have to do is vote for the Pirate Party. There are people holding the line in Europe, but the population is worried about war and immigration instead of net neutrality and encryption. These are understandable priorities but it'll not be good.
    - xorcist 2y ago
      This is part of the trans Atlantic trade agreements. They have a certain responsibility, having negotiated them, but they clearly feel they are beneficial in some way.
  - JonChesterfield 2y ago
    Crediting the EU with peace while Israel and Ukraine are actively at war is a bit much.
    - chgs 2y ago
      Are Israel and Ukraine EU members? Are they fighting members of the EU?
    - input_sh 2y ago
      Oh come on, France and Germany were basically in a perpetual war for hundreds of years before, and now there's not even a theoretical chance of any two EU states fighting each other. Occasional war here and there not directly involving any of the member states is incomparably better than what came before.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- n_ary 2y ago
  In Germany at least, unless you opt for a super cheap package(e.g. sponsored free or less than EUR 6/-), calls and texts are unlimited in local(country level) networks, only data volume is limited. Not sure about other EU neighbors.
  - SSLy 2y ago
    In Poland, 4.70€/mo will get you unlimited calls and texts. Can be purchased on pre-paid plans as a 30-day package, no need for post-paid plans.
- zer00eyz 2y ago
  If you have to run every image and text through some sort of "filter" you cant turn off... Yes. Thats a LOT of compute.
  - vaylian 2y ago
    Yes. The phone batteries across the EU are going to hate this.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    That is already happening though, this just says it should also happen to e2e encryption by scanning on device. If it was that expensive costs would have appeared a long time ago.
- lambdaxyzw 2y ago
  I pay ~0.10€ for a text message - but I don't know anyone who uses text messages for communication so it's not a problem. I could buy a cheap plan for unlimited text messages, but I don't want a fixed monthly fee and prefer prepaid.
usrnm 2y ago
There won't be any riots. This is the scariest part, most people just don't care
- mike_d 2y ago
  France: Hold by beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr...
  - hnbad 2y ago
    While it's a fun meme, if you actually look at the list, the inciting incidents are usually (accusations of) police violence/overreach, reforms to cut labor protections, welfare or public education, and Israeli military operations in Palestine. In fact, most of the protests seem to neatly fall into the "police violence" (usually against minorities) and "austerity" buckets.
    - tetris11 2y ago
      I think the parent meant that France is a country that actively protects its rights via violent protest as opposed to other countries that merely sit and suffer.
      - immibis 2y ago
        And yet France is talking about turning off the internet during these protests so that protestors can't communicate.
        hnbad 2y ago
        That was my point. Austerity measures tangibly affect most people in easy to understand ways: cuts to healthcare, cuts to education, delayed retirement, etc. Police violence and overreach are a significant concern especially among certain minorities because they (allegedly) experience forms of it every day. But the Internet is largely a magic box and at this point the common understanding seems to be that it is both private and also under massive corporate and state surveillance at the same time. And that's not even mostly wrong.
jasonvorhe 2y ago
When was the last time public outcry actually impacted policy?
- tremon 2y ago
  Example from last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_farmers%27_protests?useskin=timeless#2023_election_results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_farmers%27_protests?uses...

beardyw 2y ago

Does anyone have to pay for text messages?

isodev 2y ago
People often forget just how much we get from the EU that's taken for granted. Everything from practicalities like no roaming costs and consumer protection, all the way to freedom of movement, peace and overall stability.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  I don't think the EU says anything about how much texts should cost... Edit: I am *obviously* not talking about surcharges for roaming but cost in plans, which I think is the point of the OP when he asks who pays for texts. Pricing is not regulated and has nothing to do with the EU.
  - isodev 2y ago
    It does, quite a lot. For example, it says you should pay the same regardless where you are in the EU (roaming), it also says you get a clear and transparent pricing for your mobile service, it also says all kinds of things about your rights to cancel, change providers, get refunds etc... you should look it up.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      Why the snark? Especially since you're beside the point, so let me rephrase with the help of my lawyer: the EU does not say anything about how much consumers should be charged for text messages by their operator (i.e. "cost"). This was clear from my previous comment...
      - vasco 2y ago
        > If you continue to spend more time abroad than you do at home and your roaming consumption continues to exceed your domestic usage your operator may start charging you extra for your roaming use. The surcharges (excluding VAT) are capped at: > €0.022 per minute of voice calls made > €0.004 per text message > €2 per GB of data (cap in 2022, decreasing over time to €1 / GB, which will be the maximum surcharge from 2027 onwards) https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-telecoms/mobile-roaming-costs/indexamp_en.htm https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c...
        mytailorisrich 2y ago
        So where does it say how much operators can charge in their plans? Nowhere. They are free to say texts are free (included in plan), or texts are charged at 10 euros each, whatever. The EU only limits surcharges when roaming to other EU countries. Jeez, guys. Edit: I am not backing away from anything, I was rephrasing to sustain your strange cross-examination. You guys are being unecessarily aggressive and argumentative over a simple point. "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "don't cross-examine." It's Sunday, guys. Do something positive with your time. Bye.
        vasco 2y ago
        So you're backing away from your original stance of: "I don't think the EU says anything about how much texts should cost." Into a weaker form of "The EU only limits surcharges when roaming to other EU countries.". This was my only comment because your first position is factually incorrect, there are situations in which the EU defines how much texts can cost. edit: not sure where you see the aggressiveness
        Y_Y 2y ago
        The funny part of this is that I avoid such charges by pointlessly using lots of data in home country to account for usage in other EU countries.
- user32489318 2y ago
  Yes, but also the (1) push of PNR to keep a complete record of your travel and movements within the EU. Dutch train operator NS is operating in spirit of the future “PNR” already and makes it harder and harder to buy “anonymous” train ticket (even for local 15min journeys). The so called anonymous card, is linked to your bank account used to top it up. What if you prefer to use cash in your daily life (2), for envelope-style budgeting? Well, your bank will let inform the authorities of your anomaly. You will start receiving monthly questionnaires asking to backup your behavior and why you might want 2-3-4K eur in cash every month.
  - vasco 2y ago
    All that people have to do is vote for the Pirate Party. There are people holding the line in Europe, but the population is worried about war and immigration instead of net neutrality and encryption. These are understandable priorities but it'll not be good.
  - xorcist 2y ago
    This is part of the trans Atlantic trade agreements. They have a certain responsibility, having negotiated them, but they clearly feel they are beneficial in some way.
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  Crediting the EU with peace while Israel and Ukraine are actively at war is a bit much.
  - chgs 2y ago
    Are Israel and Ukraine EU members? Are they fighting members of the EU?
  - input_sh 2y ago
    Oh come on, France and Germany were basically in a perpetual war for hundreds of years before, and now there's not even a theoretical chance of any two EU states fighting each other. Occasional war here and there not directly involving any of the member states is incomparably better than what came before.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
n_ary 2y ago
In Germany at least, unless you opt for a super cheap package(e.g. sponsored free or less than EUR 6/-), calls and texts are unlimited in local(country level) networks, only data volume is limited. Not sure about other EU neighbors.
- SSLy 2y ago
  In Poland, 4.70€/mo will get you unlimited calls and texts. Can be purchased on pre-paid plans as a 30-day package, no need for post-paid plans.
zer00eyz 2y ago
If you have to run every image and text through some sort of "filter" you cant turn off... Yes. Thats a LOT of compute.
- vaylian 2y ago
  Yes. The phone batteries across the EU are going to hate this.
- Jensson 2y ago
  That is already happening though, this just says it should also happen to e2e encryption by scanning on device. If it was that expensive costs would have appeared a long time ago.
lambdaxyzw 2y ago
I pay ~0.10€ for a text message - but I don't know anyone who uses text messages for communication so it's not a problem. I could buy a cheap plan for unlimited text messages, but I don't want a fixed monthly fee and prefer prepaid.

usrnm 2y ago

There won't be any riots. This is the scariest part, most people just don't care

mike_d 2y ago
France: Hold by beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr...
- hnbad 2y ago
  While it's a fun meme, if you actually look at the list, the inciting incidents are usually (accusations of) police violence/overreach, reforms to cut labor protections, welfare or public education, and Israeli military operations in Palestine. In fact, most of the protests seem to neatly fall into the "police violence" (usually against minorities) and "austerity" buckets.
  - tetris11 2y ago
    I think the parent meant that France is a country that actively protects its rights via violent protest as opposed to other countries that merely sit and suffer.
    - immibis 2y ago
      And yet France is talking about turning off the internet during these protests so that protestors can't communicate.
      - hnbad 2y ago
        That was my point. Austerity measures tangibly affect most people in easy to understand ways: cuts to healthcare, cuts to education, delayed retirement, etc. Police violence and overreach are a significant concern especially among certain minorities because they (allegedly) experience forms of it every day. But the Internet is largely a magic box and at this point the common understanding seems to be that it is both private and also under massive corporate and state surveillance at the same time. And that's not even mostly wrong.

jasonvorhe 2y ago

When was the last time public outcry actually impacted policy?

tremon 2y ago
Example from last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_farmers%27_protests?useskin=timeless#2023_election_results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_farmers%27_protests?uses...