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this is the only correct answer. "a non-technical user has no idea what a server or cache is" sure, but they can learn. The average person is much smarter than

this is the only correct answer. "a non-technical user has no idea what a server or cache is" sure, but they can learn. The average person is much smarter than you think they are (when it comes to matters that actually affect their day to day life). If they don't get your explanation, it's almost always because (1) they don't care, they don't see why it matters to them (it often doesn't) (2) you're not explaining it well enough feynman has a nice philosophy on this that I think is true & useful: (that there's great variety in capability of the average person, we should explain things faithfully & without dumbing it down): https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@omarshehata/112378359360292715 https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@omarshehata/1123783593602927...

bongodongobob 2y ago
The problem is that people's brains just fucking shut down once it's computer related. "What was the error message?" "Idk I didn't read it." "Well here it is, it's asking for your password." "Ok what should I do?" This type of shit is more common than it should be. So many people just give up on computer related things that isn't the happy path.
- CGamesPlay 2y ago
  Counterpoint, when a random dialog asks for a password, the answer is not always "give the password", so maybe that's part of the reason why people find it so confusing.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    When you can't open Outlook because you're getting an error, ya might need to fuckin sign in. This is sadly a common occurrence.
- anatnom 2y ago
  If those users aren't reading the error dialogs anyways, why do the error dialogs need to pander to those users? I wonder if the "make it dumb enough for every user to understand" approach leads to user comprehension plateauing prematurely.
  - codeflo 2y ago
    Shareholder-driven growth targets mean it's no longer good enough to target the 20th percentile users, who might have reading comprehension at a 5th grade level. You have to hit the 10th percentile, or the 5th. Be glad that you still get text instead of pictures.
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      Tangentially related, I used to work at a company where the C level was demanding all of our help documents be videos. They couldn't understand that it made them unsearchable, took way more time, did not allow branching or decision making in the processes, if anything in the workflow or even UI changed the entire thing would need to be redone, takes up a ton of space, is not easily skimmable etc. "but it's easier than reading!" "are you telling me you've never learned how to do things on YouTube?" Etc. I refused and resigned not long after.
      - sethammons 2y ago
        I was thinking you could do product demos / help videos combined as an acceptance test suite. You would programmatically build the self help tutorial like a ui test (use a test browser and it would be like cypress/selenium). You would write a script, (ai) text to speech, and you could even respond to user input for branching. These would be, de facto, your acceptance test suite and your tutorials will flag when they break on new ui developments, helping to keep them up to date
        bongodongobob 2y ago
        Sure, if they want to hire someone. Ain't nobody got time for that.
    - latexr 2y ago
      > Be glad that you still get text instead of pictures. Even that isn’t a given. I’ve seen banks using emoji in their notifications. Companies are using ML to predict which emoji to change your text to. There are emoji domain names. Etcetera.
- Aerbil313 2y ago
  Half the people in my class in college don't know what Windows is. As in, they know they use a laptop. They don't know they are using Windows.
chii 2y ago
> but they can learn. though do they want to? If they can learn, they would've. And then cease being a non-technical user.
- throwawayk7h 2y ago
  I usually learn things without the explicit desire to learn, and then feel happy that I did learn. Perhaps I should learn more.
- OmarShehata 2y ago
  > And then cease being a non-technical user I'm glad you said this because Feynman has a beautiful response to it: basically, there is no such thing as a "non-technical user". Almost everyone is adept at navigating _some_ complex system in their life. I agree with you that they probably don't want to learn. but the reason they don't want to learn is because they don't think there is any value on it, they believe it is a waste of time. For the same reason I (used to) believe it's a waste of time for me to play puzzle games (I'm bad at it, I don't enjoy it, what's the point). Or learn to manage people, or learn to understand politics, etc. I'm asking you (and everyone reading this) to suspend disbelief and pretend that these users DO have capacity to learn, and they just don't see any value in it, and it's on us to clearly (and concisely) communicate the value without gatekeeping and without dumbing it down. I have been surprised at how people's capacity to learn was much greater than I expected, and I hope the same will be true for you. I see this attitude a lot of, "well, if you want to understand how this system works, we have to start from scratch" (and they start to lecture for hours about some fundamental things). I think this is a failure mode: an inability to figure out _what_ fundamental pieces actually matter to understanding the current system. Apologies for the rant, I feel strongly about this because I think there's a lot of low hanging fruit here that everyone can benefit from, but I'm still trying to refine my thoughts. i tried to write about this here: https://omarshehata.substack.com/p/my-favorite-1980s-canadian-tv-show https://omarshehata.substack.com/p/my-favorite-1980s-canadia...

bongodongobob 2y ago

The problem is that people's brains just fucking shut down once it's computer related. "What was the error message?" "Idk I didn't read it." "Well here it is, it's asking for your password." "Ok what should I do?" This type of shit is more common than it should be. So many people just give up on computer related things that isn't the happy path.

CGamesPlay 2y ago
Counterpoint, when a random dialog asks for a password, the answer is not always "give the password", so maybe that's part of the reason why people find it so confusing.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  When you can't open Outlook because you're getting an error, ya might need to fuckin sign in. This is sadly a common occurrence.
anatnom 2y ago
If those users aren't reading the error dialogs anyways, why do the error dialogs need to pander to those users? I wonder if the "make it dumb enough for every user to understand" approach leads to user comprehension plateauing prematurely.
- codeflo 2y ago
  Shareholder-driven growth targets mean it's no longer good enough to target the 20th percentile users, who might have reading comprehension at a 5th grade level. You have to hit the 10th percentile, or the 5th. Be glad that you still get text instead of pictures.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    Tangentially related, I used to work at a company where the C level was demanding all of our help documents be videos. They couldn't understand that it made them unsearchable, took way more time, did not allow branching or decision making in the processes, if anything in the workflow or even UI changed the entire thing would need to be redone, takes up a ton of space, is not easily skimmable etc. "but it's easier than reading!" "are you telling me you've never learned how to do things on YouTube?" Etc. I refused and resigned not long after.
    - sethammons 2y ago
      I was thinking you could do product demos / help videos combined as an acceptance test suite. You would programmatically build the self help tutorial like a ui test (use a test browser and it would be like cypress/selenium). You would write a script, (ai) text to speech, and you could even respond to user input for branching. These would be, de facto, your acceptance test suite and your tutorials will flag when they break on new ui developments, helping to keep them up to date
      - bongodongobob 2y ago
        Sure, if they want to hire someone. Ain't nobody got time for that.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > Be glad that you still get text instead of pictures. Even that isn’t a given. I’ve seen banks using emoji in their notifications. Companies are using ML to predict which emoji to change your text to. There are emoji domain names. Etcetera.
Aerbil313 2y ago
Half the people in my class in college don't know what Windows is. As in, they know they use a laptop. They don't know they are using Windows.

chii 2y ago

> but they can learn. though do they want to? If they can learn, they would've. And then cease being a non-technical user.

throwawayk7h 2y ago
I usually learn things without the explicit desire to learn, and then feel happy that I did learn. Perhaps I should learn more.
OmarShehata 2y ago
> And then cease being a non-technical user I'm glad you said this because Feynman has a beautiful response to it: basically, there is no such thing as a "non-technical user". Almost everyone is adept at navigating _some_ complex system in their life. I agree with you that they probably don't want to learn. but the reason they don't want to learn is because they don't think there is any value on it, they believe it is a waste of time. For the same reason I (used to) believe it's a waste of time for me to play puzzle games (I'm bad at it, I don't enjoy it, what's the point). Or learn to manage people, or learn to understand politics, etc. I'm asking you (and everyone reading this) to suspend disbelief and pretend that these users DO have capacity to learn, and they just don't see any value in it, and it's on us to clearly (and concisely) communicate the value without gatekeeping and without dumbing it down. I have been surprised at how people's capacity to learn was much greater than I expected, and I hope the same will be true for you. I see this attitude a lot of, "well, if you want to understand how this system works, we have to start from scratch" (and they start to lecture for hours about some fundamental things). I think this is a failure mode: an inability to figure out _what_ fundamental pieces actually matter to understanding the current system. Apologies for the rant, I feel strongly about this because I think there's a lot of low hanging fruit here that everyone can benefit from, but I'm still trying to refine my thoughts. i tried to write about this here: https://omarshehata.substack.com/p/my-favorite-1980s-canadian-tv-show https://omarshehata.substack.com/p/my-favorite-1980s-canadia...