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Yep. The same should be done for public transport. In the US Farebox Recovery Ratios of 20% or less are common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery

by sien 2y ago

Yep. The same should be done for public transport. In the US Farebox Recovery Ratios of 20% or less are common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#United_... Only 58% of fuel tax in Australia is spent on any kind of transport including rail. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-21/fuel-excise-not-being-spent-on-roads-amid-calls-to-cut-tax/100920658 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-21/fuel-excise-not-being... Australians drive a similar amount to the US. From https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/11/13/how-trains-could-replace-planes-in-europe https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/11/13/how-trains-could... Yet only 8% of the distance travelled by land in the EU is by rail. Even in the most train-happy countries, Austria and the Netherlands, the figures are 13% and 11%. In those countries, more than 75% of land travel is done by car. So even in Europe and Australia where cars more than pay for their costs people still drive a lot. This is with all the effort put in to public transport in Europe.

Jensson 2y ago
You can see about half of trips are by car in for example Germany: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309333/germany-modal-split-of-passenger-transport/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309333/germany-modal-sp... Public transit isn't all, just being denser so that biking and walking is more viable is also a big part to why European cities aren't concrete wastelands full of parking and roads. The normal way to go and buy groceries is to walk not drive.
bee_rider 2y ago
These transport options—more notably for cars, but everything else too—are still heavily subsidized in the sense that we’re allowing them to ignore the cost of cleaning up after them, or the cost of climate change (if they aren’t cleaned up after). If we stop that theft from everybody’s grandkids, the economics might get some people to switch over to public transit at least. But it is really easy to steal from these people, they are tiny babies or not even born yet, they can’t vote. Like stealing candy from a baby, except the candy is their planet’s ecosystem. Sucks to be them, I guess.
ksplicer 2y ago
How are you coming to the conclusion that cars are paying their fair share of costs? I'm not familiar with Australian politics at all, but a quick look found that local governments pay most of road maintenance, not the fuel excise tax[1]. Another hidden cost of cars is that they decrease density of cities and suburbs, which causes all other infrastructure to also get more expensive (sewage, gas, power, etc). [1] https://alga.com.au/policy-centre/roads-and-infrastructure/roads-funding https://alga.com.au/policy-centre/roads-and-infrastructure/r...
epolanski 2y ago
The dutch use bikes a lot. Like really a lot.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Most cities in the Nordics as well as Japan. I am always amazed at the crazy weather that people will ride through in Sweden and Finland!
CalRobert 2y ago
Similarly, all roads should be tolled.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Interesting point. Why don't you think this is true in more highly developed countries? Two example come to mind: The "seal" you must buy in Suisse, and most high speed roads in Japan are rolled.
bluecalm 2y ago
Cars don't pay for their costs and it's not close. Fuel tax doesn't even cover a small fraction of infrastructure cost in most European countries. Building roads is heavily subsidized from federal budgets, land given for free, accident costs covered by public money etc. etc.

by sien 2y ago

Jensson 2y ago

You can see about half of trips are by car in for example Germany: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309333/germany-modal-split-of-passenger-transport/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1309333/germany-modal-sp... Public transit isn't all, just being denser so that biking and walking is more viable is also a big part to why European cities aren't concrete wastelands full of parking and roads. The normal way to go and buy groceries is to walk not drive.

bee_rider 2y ago

These transport options—more notably for cars, but everything else too—are still heavily subsidized in the sense that we’re allowing them to ignore the cost of cleaning up after them, or the cost of climate change (if they aren’t cleaned up after). If we stop that theft from everybody’s grandkids, the economics might get some people to switch over to public transit at least. But it is really easy to steal from these people, they are tiny babies or not even born yet, they can’t vote. Like stealing candy from a baby, except the candy is their planet’s ecosystem. Sucks to be them, I guess.

ksplicer 2y ago

How are you coming to the conclusion that cars are paying their fair share of costs? I'm not familiar with Australian politics at all, but a quick look found that local governments pay most of road maintenance, not the fuel excise tax[1]. Another hidden cost of cars is that they decrease density of cities and suburbs, which causes all other infrastructure to also get more expensive (sewage, gas, power, etc). [1] https://alga.com.au/policy-centre/roads-and-infrastructure/roads-funding https://alga.com.au/policy-centre/roads-and-infrastructure/r...

epolanski 2y ago

The dutch use bikes a lot. Like really a lot.

throwaway2037 2y ago
Most cities in the Nordics as well as Japan. I am always amazed at the crazy weather that people will ride through in Sweden and Finland!

CalRobert 2y ago

Similarly, all roads should be tolled.

throwaway2037 2y ago
Interesting point. Why don't you think this is true in more highly developed countries? Two example come to mind: The "seal" you must buy in Suisse, and most high speed roads in Japan are rolled.

bluecalm 2y ago

Cars don't pay for their costs and it's not close. Fuel tax doesn't even cover a small fraction of infrastructure cost in most European countries. Building roads is heavily subsidized from federal budgets, land given for free, accident costs covered by public money etc. etc.