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This is more akin to downloading a jpeg and the jpeg running arbitrary code. Models should be like jpegs and I believe safetensors treat them that way, while th

This is more akin to downloading a jpeg and the jpeg running arbitrary code. Models should be like jpegs and I believe safetensors treat them that way, while the old pickle format didn't.

catgary 2y ago
The weights are like jpegs, the model itself is still a piece of software that executes code.
amelius 2y ago
You typically need more than the model to actually use it, as you might need to "massage" the data into the right form before and after the model call.
bravetraveler 2y ago
I think the gap between 'should' and [short-lived] reality is the point - that's obviously the reasonable setup, but pickle happened. In the quest of being first or whatever, amateur rediscoveries are happening. Consistently. I'm making a disgusting amount of money in the field by doing day-one packaging work any commodity project would also be doing. They just wouldn't decide to redefine things in a clearly worse way. I don't actually know jack about AI, yet here we are. The hype/gold rush is real; competence in the shared fundamentals can go a long way. The trick is knowing/applying the basics for the wizards. There's a steep premium so they can play around, apparently. Case in point: most of these humongous container images and how they're naively moved around Now that more people know how to publish (containers/packages/articles), we're seeing more drivel published. It's ridiculous yet inevitable. I just wonder how much value the rush provides. IIRC 'safetensors' aren't necessarily even that safe. I could have sworn I read they're fairly nebulous. Grain of salt etc
- fragmede 2y ago
  no such exploits have been publicised against known safetensors, so I'd need more than an unqualified Internet rumor to consider them unsafe. Not saying it's not possible but the entire point of them is that they're a blob of numbers, and not a known exploitable bit of python. How're you making money? is it a contracting via network thing or can anybody apply?
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    I tried to explain that it's nothing more than a rumor. I wrapped that in poor recollection as much as I could. Three absolving statements for the one! Did you, somehow, feel I was trying to convince? I'm fishing for education. I'm making my money doing 'SRE', which really, amounts to doing housekeeping for the AI people. Anyone can apply. What are you insinuating? Say it. My situation (other than comp) isn't special, they generally need help. I don't really need to know about what they're running to keep the systems online and running well. Another day, different workload. I may bother to learn a thing or two about it... but it's not a requirement. At all. Same toys all the way down. It's shiny old news at this level. I don't mean to belittle it. It's jazzy stuff. I just build the boring parts - OS, VLANs, etc. My 'ire'/elbowing is that 'they' (the AI folks), almost pathologically, refuse to engage with the basics like Python packaging. It's with love, honestly.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      > I'm fishing for education. (imo) Could've said safetensors are secure, and wait for Poe's law to kick in, or just not said anything. Apologies if it came across that I'm insinuating some sort of thing, it's just I've some friends looking for that type of work. My email's on my profile.
      - bravetraveler 2y ago
        Noted, I could've been more explicit - safe to the best of my knowledge, but it's murky/weak. Apologies here as well. I know I have a short fuse. The internet [and sometimes, life] trains us for it.
        fragmede 2y ago
        But no, really, where are you finding this lucrative work?
        bravetraveler 2y ago

This is more akin to downloading a jpeg and the jpeg running arbitrary code. Models should be like jpegs and I believe safetensors treat them that way, while the old pickle format didn't.

catgary 2y ago

The weights are like jpegs, the model itself is still a piece of software that executes code.

amelius 2y ago

You typically need more than the model to actually use it, as you might need to "massage" the data into the right form before and after the model call.

bravetraveler 2y ago

I think the gap between 'should' and [short-lived] reality is the point - that's obviously the reasonable setup, but pickle happened. In the quest of being first or whatever, amateur rediscoveries are happening. Consistently. I'm making a disgusting amount of money in the field by doing day-one packaging work any commodity project would also be doing. They just wouldn't decide to redefine things in a clearly worse way. I don't actually know jack about AI, yet here we are. The hype/gold rush is real; competence in the shared fundamentals can go a long way. The trick is knowing/applying the basics for the wizards. There's a steep premium so they can play around, apparently. Case in point: most of these humongous container images and how they're naively moved around Now that more people know how to publish (containers/packages/articles), we're seeing more drivel published. It's ridiculous yet inevitable. I just wonder how much value the rush provides. IIRC 'safetensors' aren't necessarily even that safe. I could have sworn I read they're fairly nebulous. Grain of salt etc

fragmede 2y ago
no such exploits have been publicised against known safetensors, so I'd need more than an unqualified Internet rumor to consider them unsafe. Not saying it's not possible but the entire point of them is that they're a blob of numbers, and not a known exploitable bit of python. How're you making money? is it a contracting via network thing or can anybody apply?
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  I tried to explain that it's nothing more than a rumor. I wrapped that in poor recollection as much as I could. Three absolving statements for the one! Did you, somehow, feel I was trying to convince? I'm fishing for education. I'm making my money doing 'SRE', which really, amounts to doing housekeeping for the AI people. Anyone can apply. What are you insinuating? Say it. My situation (other than comp) isn't special, they generally need help. I don't really need to know about what they're running to keep the systems online and running well. Another day, different workload. I may bother to learn a thing or two about it... but it's not a requirement. At all. Same toys all the way down. It's shiny old news at this level. I don't mean to belittle it. It's jazzy stuff. I just build the boring parts - OS, VLANs, etc. My 'ire'/elbowing is that 'they' (the AI folks), almost pathologically, refuse to engage with the basics like Python packaging. It's with love, honestly.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    > I'm fishing for education. (imo) Could've said safetensors are secure, and wait for Poe's law to kick in, or just not said anything. Apologies if it came across that I'm insinuating some sort of thing, it's just I've some friends looking for that type of work. My email's on my profile.
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      Noted, I could've been more explicit - safe to the best of my knowledge, but it's murky/weak. Apologies here as well. I know I have a short fuse. The internet [and sometimes, life] trains us for it.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        But no, really, where are you finding this lucrative work?
        bravetraveler 2y ago