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I think it would be more useful to compare to other professions that require a degree, rather than all Americans.

justin66 2y ago
More useful still to compare to other professions that require a graduate degree, as most teacher positions require this.
- psychlops 2y ago
  I checked 2 states, CA and NJ just require a bachelor's with a 3.0 GPA. Where are you getting the idea that most require advance degrees?
  - zie 2y ago
    Next go look at their provisional teaching requirements. California has a BSR test, that you have to pass, showing you can read, write and do math slightly above the grade level you will be teaching. Then you can get a provisional license and eventually meet the actual teaching requirements.
  - justin66 2y ago
    That's actually my bad - I know a number of high school teachers with graduate degrees, but I assume you're right.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Some states do require it, and in others it’s practically required if you plan to teach more than five or so years, because your comp will quickly plateau at a not very high even by teacher standards level if you don’t.
  - orwin 2y ago
    How recent is that? In my country, you had to study for 7 years before being a teacher, and pass an exam (master degree plus two years learning from another teacher). Then, due to shortages (caused by low pay), they removed 2 years around 2010, so now its only 5 years - a master degree. They made the passing grade at the exam so low for some teachers (math and physics teachers) that you can treat it like it doesn't exist, and while the current government won't do anything next year because they have interest in makebelieve the past 4 years the education recruitment process hasn't been a disaster, you have talks about diminishing the requirements to a bachelor degree (they will wait until after the european elections to start pushing the idea imho). So most active teachers in place today had to study 7 years before working with kids. But when i will check the requirement in two-three years, i'll be able to say "they're pretty well paid for people with bachelor's degree!" too, event id it wouldn't be the reality for most teachers.
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      I don't know about those states, but in the US a graduate degree is not typically required to start teaching. There may be a requirement to earn a graduate degree within a certain period, but often not a hard requirement, more a soft "get this if you want a promotion" requirement. Instead they have to get (and maintain) certifications to keep their job. They can be hired without the certifications on a provisional basis. https://www.gadoe.org/Finance-and-Business-Operations/Budget-Services/Documents/FY24%20State%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf https://www.gadoe.org/Finance-and-Business-Operations/Budget... Going with the state whose schools I'm most familiar with. In GA those are the base salaries. Districts can increase the pay if they have the funding. Sometimes for specific fields only, math teachers in one county were getting paid almost 50% extra for a while due to a severe shortage a decade or so back. If you don't get a graduate degree most teachers will cap out at T-4 or T-5, which this year maxes at $58k and $66k with 21+ years of experience. If you earn through an EdD [0] you'll be at the T-7 level which is $81k. $23k or 15k difference [0] Doctorate of education, often a non-dissertation degree with a large practicum component, tedious to earn more than hard to earn.
deleted 2y ago
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peterfirefly 2y ago
Not all degrees are created equal. My understanding is that education degrees are particularly easy to get.
- zie 2y ago
  Lots of teachers have masters or PHD's. Those are generally not that easy to get. Yes there has been a lowering of standards to get a teaching certificate in many states, but that's because they are desperate to do anything possible to get more teachers in classrooms without having to raise pay. Not because it's a good idea. Many teaching certificates are handed out "provisionally", and give you a few years to earn whatever is actually required, while still allowing you to actively teach in a classroom.
  - gnicholas 2y ago
    A decent number of teachers have doctorates, but I’ve never met one with a PhD. Teachers are often paid more for having a doctorate, and so they get EdDs, which are significantly easier to get.
    - peterfirefly 2y ago
      > so they get EdDs, which are significantly easier to get. That was also my understanding. I have read lots of complaints from seemingly smart teachers about having to waste their time on getting one of those (but none of them worried about being able to do the work and get the degree). I have also read lots of entitled stuff from seemingly very dumb teachers with said degree who thought they were smarter than other teachers because of it -- and smarter than pretty much everybody out there without a "doctorate" as well. And I've read research that shows that the degrees (bachelors/masters/"doctorate"/phd) actually doesn't matter much for people's teaching abilities...

More useful still to compare to other professions that require a graduate degree, as most teacher positions require this.

psychlops 2y ago
I checked 2 states, CA and NJ just require a bachelor's with a 3.0 GPA. Where are you getting the idea that most require advance degrees?
- zie 2y ago
  Next go look at their provisional teaching requirements. California has a BSR test, that you have to pass, showing you can read, write and do math slightly above the grade level you will be teaching. Then you can get a provisional license and eventually meet the actual teaching requirements.
- justin66 2y ago
  That's actually my bad - I know a number of high school teachers with graduate degrees, but I assume you're right.
- vundercind 2y ago
  Some states do require it, and in others it’s practically required if you plan to teach more than five or so years, because your comp will quickly plateau at a not very high even by teacher standards level if you don’t.
- orwin 2y ago
  How recent is that? In my country, you had to study for 7 years before being a teacher, and pass an exam (master degree plus two years learning from another teacher). Then, due to shortages (caused by low pay), they removed 2 years around 2010, so now its only 5 years - a master degree. They made the passing grade at the exam so low for some teachers (math and physics teachers) that you can treat it like it doesn't exist, and while the current government won't do anything next year because they have interest in makebelieve the past 4 years the education recruitment process hasn't been a disaster, you have talks about diminishing the requirements to a bachelor degree (they will wait until after the european elections to start pushing the idea imho). So most active teachers in place today had to study 7 years before working with kids. But when i will check the requirement in two-three years, i'll be able to say "they're pretty well paid for people with bachelor's degree!" too, event id it wouldn't be the reality for most teachers.
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    I don't know about those states, but in the US a graduate degree is not typically required to start teaching. There may be a requirement to earn a graduate degree within a certain period, but often not a hard requirement, more a soft "get this if you want a promotion" requirement. Instead they have to get (and maintain) certifications to keep their job. They can be hired without the certifications on a provisional basis. https://www.gadoe.org/Finance-and-Business-Operations/Budget-Services/Documents/FY24%20State%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf https://www.gadoe.org/Finance-and-Business-Operations/Budget... Going with the state whose schools I'm most familiar with. In GA those are the base salaries. Districts can increase the pay if they have the funding. Sometimes for specific fields only, math teachers in one county were getting paid almost 50% extra for a while due to a severe shortage a decade or so back. If you don't get a graduate degree most teachers will cap out at T-4 or T-5, which this year maxes at $58k and $66k with 21+ years of experience. If you earn through an EdD [0] you'll be at the T-7 level which is $81k. $23k or 15k difference [0] Doctorate of education, often a non-dissertation degree with a large practicum component, tedious to earn more than hard to earn.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

peterfirefly 2y ago

Not all degrees are created equal. My understanding is that education degrees are particularly easy to get.

zie 2y ago
Lots of teachers have masters or PHD's. Those are generally not that easy to get. Yes there has been a lowering of standards to get a teaching certificate in many states, but that's because they are desperate to do anything possible to get more teachers in classrooms without having to raise pay. Not because it's a good idea. Many teaching certificates are handed out "provisionally", and give you a few years to earn whatever is actually required, while still allowing you to actively teach in a classroom.
- gnicholas 2y ago
  A decent number of teachers have doctorates, but I’ve never met one with a PhD. Teachers are often paid more for having a doctorate, and so they get EdDs, which are significantly easier to get.
  - peterfirefly 2y ago
    > so they get EdDs, which are significantly easier to get. That was also my understanding. I have read lots of complaints from seemingly smart teachers about having to waste their time on getting one of those (but none of them worried about being able to do the work and get the degree). I have also read lots of entitled stuff from seemingly very dumb teachers with said degree who thought they were smarter than other teachers because of it -- and smarter than pretty much everybody out there without a "doctorate" as well. And I've read research that shows that the degrees (bachelors/masters/"doctorate"/phd) actually doesn't matter much for people's teaching abilities...