5 ms·

Looks a lot like Brave's overall strategy (not just this announcement but the whole gist of the company) is to try and tap in to a part of Google's revenue stre

by roenxi 2y ago

Looks a lot like Brave's overall strategy (not just this announcement but the whole gist of the company) is to try and tap in to a part of Google's revenue stream by innovating in the web browser space. It is a bold one if so and I wish them every success. It is a pity the managers over at Mozilla don't think Google is worth challenging. If someone ever succeeds at dragging AdSense into the OSS world / a big free market the world would be very different. There might finally find a use case for crypto. I suppose the fraud might be too much, but there must be an interesting commercial model in there somewhere.

slig 2y ago
> It is a pity the managers over at Mozilla don't think Google is worth challenging It's not an easy thing to do when they get half a billion a year from Google.
- influx 2y ago
  Google pays them off not to innovate or launch anything that would compete with their search monopoly.
  - slig 2y ago
    Yes, it's so clear what the deal is.
kibwen 2y ago
> If someone ever succeeds at dragging AdSense into the OSS world The absolute last thing I want is for the OSS world to fall prey to the perverse incentives of the ad industry. Advertising needs to be purged, not embraced.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  Advertising is potentially useful, it's the scale that's a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGgTy5YJ-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGgTy5YJ-g Like, "Every inch of the new park is covered in sponsor branding" is a problem, but "I had no idea that a store selling towels opened in our town" is also a problem. These are both advertising, at some point you cross from "I didn't know about that, thanks" to "Just fuck off already" and that's too much advertising. Dispepsi for example, the Negativland album, is premised on the idea that everybody on the entire planet already knows about Coca-Cola and Pepsi, so their continued advertising is entirely futile. Nobody who wants a brown fizzy beverage is unsure whether they could obtain such a thing or what it might be called. So all they're doing is annoying us.
  - chicagojoe 2y ago
    The other purpose of the ad is to keep the product top of mind. Those bubbles-and-ice ads aren't to introduce you to the concept but to remind you that you want one - now.
    - tialaramex 2y ago
      Sure, there are a lot of potential rationales offered for more and more, and more advertising. But when I looked into it, awareness was literally the only one with clear statistical evidence that independent researchers had gone yeah, that actually works. If you don't tell any customers your product exists, that's definitely not going to help sell more. Story checks out. Beyond that? I haven't seen the evidence. Obviously the guy at the TV network is not going to tell Jim from Ad Co. that it's futile to advertise Pepsi because everybody knows about Pepsi. And Jim isn't going tell Pepsi's Head of Marketing that it's futile to spend money with Ad Co. because Pepsi makes up a noticeable part of Jim's annual sales bonus. The Head of Marketing would no longer have a job if they stopped advertising, so no fear they will spontaneously realise. All of them will prefer to make up stories for why it makes sense to spend more and more and more on advertising, because they all benefit. But does it actually work?
    - Steven420 2y ago
      That is completely true and quite effective. Not sure why you're getting down voted. It's time to do away with the down votes
  - Krasnol 2y ago
    I already googled for towel shops. Just like everybody else would do. I had to accept the manipulated results and most probably even fell for it. So why would I need even more ads for the new towel store?
    - roenxi 2y ago
      The first practical answer is without ads there wouldn't be a Google. The reason the search index is commercially viable is because it shows ads. The second is maybe you don't know what a towel is, there are a lot born every minute. The third is maybe you won't think of buying a towel - even if you need it - without prompting which I suspect is the case for most people. I also don't understand the general hate some people have for websites that are commercially viable without charging an entrance fee. Ads are better than the next-best option.
- dazc 2y ago
  Advertising worked OK when everyone understood what it was and how it was necessary to pay for free, or almost free, stuff. I can remember when our local paper used to sell out everywhere on a Thursday afternoon because that was the day when all the job ads were published. No one ever complained there were too many of these. Similarly on a Friday when all the houses for sale or rent were posted. As happened with other forms of cheap or free media such as regular mail, telephone calls and email, the returns for advertising eventually become a numbers game even when 99.9% of the audience hate them.
- troyvit 2y ago
  > Advertising needs to be purged, not embraced. I agree, but most people also also feel that content should be free. If content is free, but not ad supported, who pays the people to create it?
  - wintermutestwin 2y ago
    Why is it that this community of innovators can’t fathom other ways to fund cool things besides the false dichotomy of customer pays vs we shove ads down customer throat? Some services seem like facebook and reddit seem ripe for a nonprofit model to use an example that doesn’t require any innovation. Maybe because y’all are focused on winning big with your options? Maybe that’s the root cause of enshitification?
    - troyvit 2y ago
      This innovator actually works for a nonprofit and guess what -- people don't want to pay for news, and those who did at one time are giving much less.[1] There are a few nonprofit models for social media, and they aren't making a dent in the big monsters. As far as I'm concerned, social media is where ads belong, but maybe that's because I despise it. The nonprofit model for content, my wheelhouse, is struggling mightily with this issue, but it all comes down to getting donations, government funding, or getting people to work for free. Even this list of "non-reformist reforms"[2] comes down to getting money from the government or consolidating into media co-ops. Public radio stations get a small amount of government funding as you might know, but a journalistic enterprise beholden to its government is probably actually worse than being beholden to advertisers. So, as a member of this community of innovators, what are your suggestions? [1] https://logan-gentry.medium.com/giving-was-down-in-2023-but-why-2e65b36cc57a https://logan-gentry.medium.com/giving-was-down-in-2023-but-... [2] https://lpeproject.org/blog/taking-media-out-of-the-market/ https://lpeproject.org/blog/taking-media-out-of-the-market/
servus45678981 2y ago
ADS are cancerous just like crypto stuff. That is the reason I switched to firefox klar & esr on my dailydriver machines and to librewolf on any other machine I had lying around. And search engine wise ecosia, metager and Qwant do a great job.
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  Brave Search has been a lot better than these other alternatives in my experience. I used to use DDG but the results were always a hit and miss. With Brave Search, I have completely replaced Google.
  - servus45678981 2y ago
    Especially Metager is real competition to brave search as it using so many sources that it even outlived the ddg/bing attacks.

by roenxi 2y ago

slig 2y ago

> It is a pity the managers over at Mozilla don't think Google is worth challenging It's not an easy thing to do when they get half a billion a year from Google.

influx 2y ago
Google pays them off not to innovate or launch anything that would compete with their search monopoly.
- slig 2y ago
  Yes, it's so clear what the deal is.

kibwen 2y ago

> If someone ever succeeds at dragging AdSense into the OSS world The absolute last thing I want is for the OSS world to fall prey to the perverse incentives of the ad industry. Advertising needs to be purged, not embraced.

tialaramex 2y ago
Advertising is potentially useful, it's the scale that's a problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGgTy5YJ-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGgTy5YJ-g Like, "Every inch of the new park is covered in sponsor branding" is a problem, but "I had no idea that a store selling towels opened in our town" is also a problem. These are both advertising, at some point you cross from "I didn't know about that, thanks" to "Just fuck off already" and that's too much advertising. Dispepsi for example, the Negativland album, is premised on the idea that everybody on the entire planet already knows about Coca-Cola and Pepsi, so their continued advertising is entirely futile. Nobody who wants a brown fizzy beverage is unsure whether they could obtain such a thing or what it might be called. So all they're doing is annoying us.
- chicagojoe 2y ago
  The other purpose of the ad is to keep the product top of mind. Those bubbles-and-ice ads aren't to introduce you to the concept but to remind you that you want one - now.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    Sure, there are a lot of potential rationales offered for more and more, and more advertising. But when I looked into it, awareness was literally the only one with clear statistical evidence that independent researchers had gone yeah, that actually works. If you don't tell any customers your product exists, that's definitely not going to help sell more. Story checks out. Beyond that? I haven't seen the evidence. Obviously the guy at the TV network is not going to tell Jim from Ad Co. that it's futile to advertise Pepsi because everybody knows about Pepsi. And Jim isn't going tell Pepsi's Head of Marketing that it's futile to spend money with Ad Co. because Pepsi makes up a noticeable part of Jim's annual sales bonus. The Head of Marketing would no longer have a job if they stopped advertising, so no fear they will spontaneously realise. All of them will prefer to make up stories for why it makes sense to spend more and more and more on advertising, because they all benefit. But does it actually work?
  - Steven420 2y ago
    That is completely true and quite effective. Not sure why you're getting down voted. It's time to do away with the down votes
- Krasnol 2y ago
  I already googled for towel shops. Just like everybody else would do. I had to accept the manipulated results and most probably even fell for it. So why would I need even more ads for the new towel store?
  - roenxi 2y ago
    The first practical answer is without ads there wouldn't be a Google. The reason the search index is commercially viable is because it shows ads. The second is maybe you don't know what a towel is, there are a lot born every minute. The third is maybe you won't think of buying a towel - even if you need it - without prompting which I suspect is the case for most people. I also don't understand the general hate some people have for websites that are commercially viable without charging an entrance fee. Ads are better than the next-best option.
dazc 2y ago
Advertising worked OK when everyone understood what it was and how it was necessary to pay for free, or almost free, stuff. I can remember when our local paper used to sell out everywhere on a Thursday afternoon because that was the day when all the job ads were published. No one ever complained there were too many of these. Similarly on a Friday when all the houses for sale or rent were posted. As happened with other forms of cheap or free media such as regular mail, telephone calls and email, the returns for advertising eventually become a numbers game even when 99.9% of the audience hate them.
troyvit 2y ago
> Advertising needs to be purged, not embraced. I agree, but most people also also feel that content should be free. If content is free, but not ad supported, who pays the people to create it?
- wintermutestwin 2y ago
  Why is it that this community of innovators can’t fathom other ways to fund cool things besides the false dichotomy of customer pays vs we shove ads down customer throat? Some services seem like facebook and reddit seem ripe for a nonprofit model to use an example that doesn’t require any innovation. Maybe because y’all are focused on winning big with your options? Maybe that’s the root cause of enshitification?
  - troyvit 2y ago
    This innovator actually works for a nonprofit and guess what -- people don't want to pay for news, and those who did at one time are giving much less.[1] There are a few nonprofit models for social media, and they aren't making a dent in the big monsters. As far as I'm concerned, social media is where ads belong, but maybe that's because I despise it. The nonprofit model for content, my wheelhouse, is struggling mightily with this issue, but it all comes down to getting donations, government funding, or getting people to work for free. Even this list of "non-reformist reforms"[2] comes down to getting money from the government or consolidating into media co-ops. Public radio stations get a small amount of government funding as you might know, but a journalistic enterprise beholden to its government is probably actually worse than being beholden to advertisers. So, as a member of this community of innovators, what are your suggestions? [1] https://logan-gentry.medium.com/giving-was-down-in-2023-but-why-2e65b36cc57a https://logan-gentry.medium.com/giving-was-down-in-2023-but-... [2] https://lpeproject.org/blog/taking-media-out-of-the-market/ https://lpeproject.org/blog/taking-media-out-of-the-market/

servus45678981 2y ago

ADS are cancerous just like crypto stuff. That is the reason I switched to firefox klar & esr on my dailydriver machines and to librewolf on any other machine I had lying around. And search engine wise ecosia, metager and Qwant do a great job.

NayamAmarshe 2y ago
Brave Search has been a lot better than these other alternatives in my experience. I used to use DDG but the results were always a hit and miss. With Brave Search, I have completely replaced Google.
- servus45678981 2y ago
  Especially Metager is real competition to brave search as it using so many sources that it even outlived the ddg/bing attacks.