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Not Germany, France, etc. But I absolutely can imagine them not re-working their entire product line for any of the smaller countries (baltics, balkans, Nordic

Not Germany, France, etc. But I absolutely can imagine them not re-working their entire product line for any of the smaller countries (baltics, balkans, Nordics, Eastern Europe, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc). And for hardware startups? Forget about it. It’s already a nightmare to sell physical products throughout Europe given the intra-country shipping costs, multi-lingual requirements, and patchwork of localized distribution partners. You can expand to Europe once you’re big enough to deal with all the localization/regulation. It’s funny, HN used to be a community of startup founders but nowadays you’ll see near-zero thought given toward startups in any discussions on HN. This is now a community of big tech worker bees who are hostile toward big tech companies, but who ironically support legal movements that entrench big tech.

theodric 2y ago
And that isn't just some remote possibility, it's a likely outcome, because it's already a crapshoot with hardware/service availability across Europe. It was the case that for many years - might still be? - you couldn't buy Pixel phones in the Netherlands, which is how I ended up with a secondhand Verizon unit with a locked bootloader. In Switzerland, Digitec/Galaxus grey-markets many products which are otherwise not offered there. Last I checked, you still can't buy a Steam Deck in Switzerland. And none of that is because of additional pressure from onerous laws.
- Jnr 2y ago
  Switzerland is not in the EU. It is not part of the common market. They can not cut out Baltics, Netherlands, Sweden or any other members of the single market if they want to sell in any of the EU countries. That is the strength of the EU.
  - theodric 2y ago
    I'm sorry to disagree so bluntly, but: you are incorrect; they did, and they still do cut whole subregions out. Example: Google has a Google (web)Store in 17 European countries [1] (including the UK and Switzerland), thus 15 of 27 EU countries, and that number does not include the Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania. You can buy a Pixel in NL today, but you couldn't in 2019, even though Google had a web store there, because they didn't offer the product line in NL. I don't live in NL anymore, so I can't tell you what still isn't available there, but manufacturers refusing to bother with minority countries or languages (Dutch: "only" 24 million speakers in Europe) is and will continue to be a factor that prevents products from being localized and therefore offered in certain markets, European single market or not. Estonia has a population of ~1.3 million, so I can't imagine it's at the top of Google's priority list. [1] https://store.google.com/regionpicker https://store.google.com/regionpicker
Jnr 2y ago
Then it is good that they can not do it by law. If they are selling products in other EU countries, especially digitally, they have to sell and ship it all across all EU.

theodric 2y ago

And that isn't just some remote possibility, it's a likely outcome, because it's already a crapshoot with hardware/service availability across Europe. It was the case that for many years - might still be? - you couldn't buy Pixel phones in the Netherlands, which is how I ended up with a secondhand Verizon unit with a locked bootloader. In Switzerland, Digitec/Galaxus grey-markets many products which are otherwise not offered there. Last I checked, you still can't buy a Steam Deck in Switzerland. And none of that is because of additional pressure from onerous laws.

Jnr 2y ago
Switzerland is not in the EU. It is not part of the common market. They can not cut out Baltics, Netherlands, Sweden or any other members of the single market if they want to sell in any of the EU countries. That is the strength of the EU.
- theodric 2y ago
  I'm sorry to disagree so bluntly, but: you are incorrect; they did, and they still do cut whole subregions out. Example: Google has a Google (web)Store in 17 European countries [1] (including the UK and Switzerland), thus 15 of 27 EU countries, and that number does not include the Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania. You can buy a Pixel in NL today, but you couldn't in 2019, even though Google had a web store there, because they didn't offer the product line in NL. I don't live in NL anymore, so I can't tell you what still isn't available there, but manufacturers refusing to bother with minority countries or languages (Dutch: "only" 24 million speakers in Europe) is and will continue to be a factor that prevents products from being localized and therefore offered in certain markets, European single market or not. Estonia has a population of ~1.3 million, so I can't imagine it's at the top of Google's priority list. [1] https://store.google.com/regionpicker https://store.google.com/regionpicker

Jnr 2y ago

Then it is good that they can not do it by law. If they are selling products in other EU countries, especially digitally, they have to sell and ship it all across all EU.