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An interesting story with rather absurd moral conclusions drawn from it. I think this is a fantastic workaround against one of the world's largest corporations

An interesting story with rather absurd moral conclusions drawn from it. I think this is a fantastic workaround against one of the world's largest corporations extracting revenue from everything, and there should be more of this energy in the world.

krisoft 2y ago
> this is a fantastic workaround against one of the world's largest corporations extracting revenue from everything Exactly. The idea that one looks at this situation and somehow concludes that Apple is good and the manufacturers are bad is absurd.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  OTOH, taking the position that Apple is the baddie here is just as absurd. These are all big companies out to make a buck. Without taking sides, I'd say the fundamental problem in this case is the deception. They are pretending to sell one thing and delivering another. If they told you what you were buying, I'd call it clever and totally reasonable.
  - Control8894 2y ago
    > These are all big companies out to make a buck. != not bad
  - calibas 2y ago
    > taking the position that Apple is the baddie here is just as absurd. These are all big companies out to make a buck. I see this logic often, and I don't understand it. If I did something people considered unethical, arguing that I did it out of greed wouldn't change people's minds. It would probably hurt my argument. When a big company does something people consider unethical, there's almost always someone who mentions that the point of a business is to make money, as if that's a excuse for their behavior. It's like there's a separate set of ethics for business, and the worst sin of all is not being profitable.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      I'm not totally clear on what you are getting at here -- are you saying that yes, we can call Apple bad here? Because they made a choice to prioritize profit, which made other companies deceive customers with inexpensive workarounds, the real problem is back to being Apple? They forced these other companies to be deceptive? > I see this logic often, and I don't understand it. You may be reading more into what I said than I intended. I am merely suggesting that big companies are in no way deserving of our sympathy. In this case, Apple is looking out for their best interests, and so are the manufacturers selling bogus products. Nobody forced those manufacturers to choose this route, and as big faceless corporations out to make a buck, why let them off the hook and blame Apple? At least you know what you're spending top dollar for when you buy something from Apple. It's entirely your choice if it's worth it.
      - calibas 2y ago
        When put together, your first couple sentences seem to imply that we shouldn't call Apple "bad" because they're just out to make a buck.
        rootusrootus 2y ago
        I'm clearly not doing a great job of conveying my thoughts today. I should probably spend more time reading what I've written before I hit the reply button.
        refulgentis 2y ago
        I get what you're saying, in a particular ingroup this is *the* gospel riposte to a particular lawsuit involving a epic corporation and Apple. And everyone understands it there. For whatever reason, that's the only place in tech I've seen a group of people nodding along to "complaining about bad thing is bad because the person complaining also is bad generally." It's a specious argument, so it sounds odd, and outside that context, people aren't likely to steelman it.
    - deleted 2y ago
schmookeeg 2y ago
I'm comfortable with a ruling of "Everyone sucks here" on this. :) I'd be super annoyed just as the author, for the same reasons.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
"Until finally back home, I do some research and figure out what's going on: A scourge of cheap "lightning" headphones and lightning accessories is flooding certain markets, unleashed by unscrupulous Chinese manufacturers who have discovered an unholy recipe: True Apple lightning devices are more expensive to make." Why are they more expensive to make. Is it for the good of humanity? Recommended viewing: https://www.metacritic.com/movie/steve-jobs/ https://www.metacritic.com/movie/steve-jobs/ Computers as "art", according to preferences of one person, versus computers as machines for the benefit of everyone. Closed systems to extract maximum profits for Apple versus open systems that can be modified and expanded to benefit everyone. "I wish @Apple would devote an employee or two to cracking down on such a technological, psychological abomination as this." How about lowering the cost of making "lightening" devices. How about offering the option to use a non-proprietary protocol? "And I wish humanity would use its engineering prowess for good, and not opportunistic deception." No doubt that's what people is rural Chile want, too. They do not mind paying higher prices. As long as the products are "Apple-certified". /s This person tweeting seems to be having a hallucination where Apple is neither opportunistic nor deceptive. Nevermind its deliberate attempts to make its computers incompatible (preventing interoperability) and needlessly expensive.

krisoft 2y ago

> this is a fantastic workaround against one of the world's largest corporations extracting revenue from everything Exactly. The idea that one looks at this situation and somehow concludes that Apple is good and the manufacturers are bad is absurd.

rootusrootus 2y ago
OTOH, taking the position that Apple is the baddie here is just as absurd. These are all big companies out to make a buck. Without taking sides, I'd say the fundamental problem in this case is the deception. They are pretending to sell one thing and delivering another. If they told you what you were buying, I'd call it clever and totally reasonable.
- Control8894 2y ago
  > These are all big companies out to make a buck. != not bad
- calibas 2y ago
  > taking the position that Apple is the baddie here is just as absurd. These are all big companies out to make a buck. I see this logic often, and I don't understand it. If I did something people considered unethical, arguing that I did it out of greed wouldn't change people's minds. It would probably hurt my argument. When a big company does something people consider unethical, there's almost always someone who mentions that the point of a business is to make money, as if that's a excuse for their behavior. It's like there's a separate set of ethics for business, and the worst sin of all is not being profitable.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    I'm not totally clear on what you are getting at here -- are you saying that yes, we can call Apple bad here? Because they made a choice to prioritize profit, which made other companies deceive customers with inexpensive workarounds, the real problem is back to being Apple? They forced these other companies to be deceptive? > I see this logic often, and I don't understand it. You may be reading more into what I said than I intended. I am merely suggesting that big companies are in no way deserving of our sympathy. In this case, Apple is looking out for their best interests, and so are the manufacturers selling bogus products. Nobody forced those manufacturers to choose this route, and as big faceless corporations out to make a buck, why let them off the hook and blame Apple? At least you know what you're spending top dollar for when you buy something from Apple. It's entirely your choice if it's worth it.
    - calibas 2y ago
      When put together, your first couple sentences seem to imply that we shouldn't call Apple "bad" because they're just out to make a buck.
      - rootusrootus 2y ago
        I'm clearly not doing a great job of conveying my thoughts today. I should probably spend more time reading what I've written before I hit the reply button.
        refulgentis 2y ago
        I get what you're saying, in a particular ingroup this is *the* gospel riposte to a particular lawsuit involving a epic corporation and Apple. And everyone understands it there. For whatever reason, that's the only place in tech I've seen a group of people nodding along to "complaining about bad thing is bad because the person complaining also is bad generally." It's a specious argument, so it sounds odd, and outside that context, people aren't likely to steelman it.
  - deleted 2y ago

schmookeeg 2y ago

I'm comfortable with a ruling of "Everyone sucks here" on this. :) I'd be super annoyed just as the author, for the same reasons.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

"Until finally back home, I do some research and figure out what's going on: A scourge of cheap "lightning" headphones and lightning accessories is flooding certain markets, unleashed by unscrupulous Chinese manufacturers who have discovered an unholy recipe: True Apple lightning devices are more expensive to make." Why are they more expensive to make. Is it for the good of humanity? Recommended viewing: https://www.metacritic.com/movie/steve-jobs/ https://www.metacritic.com/movie/steve-jobs/ Computers as "art", according to preferences of one person, versus computers as machines for the benefit of everyone. Closed systems to extract maximum profits for Apple versus open systems that can be modified and expanded to benefit everyone. "I wish @Apple would devote an employee or two to cracking down on such a technological, psychological abomination as this." How about lowering the cost of making "lightening" devices. How about offering the option to use a non-proprietary protocol? "And I wish humanity would use its engineering prowess for good, and not opportunistic deception." No doubt that's what people is rural Chile want, too. They do not mind paying higher prices. As long as the products are "Apple-certified". /s This person tweeting seems to be having a hallucination where Apple is neither opportunistic nor deceptive. Nevermind its deliberate attempts to make its computers incompatible (preventing interoperability) and needlessly expensive.