8 ms·

I suspect the truth is he was fired but Paul is afraid to say that so has come up with a counter narrative. Paul is very clever like that.

nuz 2y ago
Yeah both their reputations are kind of screwed at this point so I don't really believe what they say based on just this
baxtr 2y ago
It doesn’t necessarily mean he is lying though. Our brains change our memories such that it fits our current narratives.
- loceng 2y ago
  "Maybe it's better/a good time you leave" as part of a conversation is one such way to recommend someone leave rather than a likely alternative.
  - baxtr 2y ago
    I don’t understand. Do you care to explain?
    - loceng 2y ago
      A talk with YC head like Paul or other, a "read the room" situation, the writing is on the wall, etc.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      That kind of phrasing often carries an undertone of "and if you don't leave voluntarily, we will fire you".
      - baxtr 2y ago
        I understand that. Thanks. I just don’t know how this relates to what I wrote.
        loceng 2y ago
        Basically it could be that he's not "lying" by speaking a half-truth, e.g. if he didn't resign then the writing was on the wall that he would have otherwise been fired.
        baxtr 2y ago
        Understood thanks. I meant something different though: I was thinking if he might remember it differently today than if actually happened. Human memories are not very reliable.
        loceng 2y ago
        Some people's memories aren't very reliable, people who develop lying as a habit, who weave webs of lies - "the lies we weave when we learn to deceive" - are especially not going to be reliable with their recall; and you can get signs of this based on how they respond or react to questions or engagement.
loceng 2y ago
I wonder if he could be subpoenaed for Elon's lawsuit to testify under oath, with potential evidence gathered?
akira2501 2y ago
That's what offering someone an ultimatum is. "You either change your behavior or you stop working here." The encoded threat is that if you do not comply we will simply remove you. It's somewhat mealy mouthed. "We didn't fire him. We just reached the penultimate step before having to fire him."
- jdminhbg 2y ago
  If I quit a job because they want everyone to return the office, was I fired?
  - richbell 2y ago
    Depending on the circumstances, it could be construed as constructive dismissal. Creating unfavorable ultimatums allows companies to 'lay off' people without having to pay severance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Yes, and if you have a union you should talk to them about unemployment protection.
  - Cheezemansam 2y ago
    Well if the employer is suddenly requiring previously remote workers to come back to the office, they are in a sense firing them. Or perhaps more accurately "laying them off" because it isn't an individualized thing.
- remram 2y ago
  If I quit a job because I am starting a full-time job somewhere else, was I fired?
  - akira2501 2y ago
    If your boss has to come to you and explain to you that you can't actually work two full time jobs at once, then yes, you were fired very politely. If you understood the morals and knew enough to offer your resignation when you accepted the other job, then no, you just took a new job very ethically.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I don't get this speculation. Lots of comments saying "it was still a firing", which makes no sense to me. Firing is not normally used to include situations where the outcome is totally under control of the person who is "fired". And you say "Paul is clever like that", which just comes off as ridiculous shade to me. Paul may be clever, but he outlined some factual info that, if not true, would just be outright lying, which I don't think he would do. He fundamentally said the decision was always Altman's to make. Also, I hate how this has become yet another case of using semantics disingenuously. Say what you will about the true meaning of "firing", but nearly everyone would interpret that as Altman got canned and YC didn't want him back. That's not what happened apparently. So all the people saying "it's still a firing" feels like the "I'm not touching you" game that 5-year-old siblings play.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
_obviously 2y ago
I think it's pretty clear from all Sam's interviews that I've seen that he is a sociopath. I wonder why Paul didn't see it.
- EFreethought 2y ago
  Honestly, I am shocked Altman has made it as far as he has and lasted this long. He comes across to me as very creepy and unsettling in interviews. I cannot imagine he is any better in person. How anybody can talk to someone like that for more than a minute is beyond me.
  - hnfong 2y ago
    You're in a forum full of nerds and the accusation towards Altman is "he totally looks like a nerd".....

nuz 2y ago

Yeah both their reputations are kind of screwed at this point so I don't really believe what they say based on just this

baxtr 2y ago

It doesn’t necessarily mean he is lying though. Our brains change our memories such that it fits our current narratives.

loceng 2y ago
"Maybe it's better/a good time you leave" as part of a conversation is one such way to recommend someone leave rather than a likely alternative.
- baxtr 2y ago
  I don’t understand. Do you care to explain?
  - loceng 2y ago
    A talk with YC head like Paul or other, a "read the room" situation, the writing is on the wall, etc.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    That kind of phrasing often carries an undertone of "and if you don't leave voluntarily, we will fire you".
    - baxtr 2y ago
      I understand that. Thanks. I just don’t know how this relates to what I wrote.
      - loceng 2y ago
        Basically it could be that he's not "lying" by speaking a half-truth, e.g. if he didn't resign then the writing was on the wall that he would have otherwise been fired.
        baxtr 2y ago
        Understood thanks. I meant something different though: I was thinking if he might remember it differently today than if actually happened. Human memories are not very reliable.
        loceng 2y ago
        Some people's memories aren't very reliable, people who develop lying as a habit, who weave webs of lies - "the lies we weave when we learn to deceive" - are especially not going to be reliable with their recall; and you can get signs of this based on how they respond or react to questions or engagement.

loceng 2y ago

I wonder if he could be subpoenaed for Elon's lawsuit to testify under oath, with potential evidence gathered?

akira2501 2y ago

That's what offering someone an ultimatum is. "You either change your behavior or you stop working here." The encoded threat is that if you do not comply we will simply remove you. It's somewhat mealy mouthed. "We didn't fire him. We just reached the penultimate step before having to fire him."

jdminhbg 2y ago
If I quit a job because they want everyone to return the office, was I fired?
- richbell 2y ago
  Depending on the circumstances, it could be construed as constructive dismissal. Creating unfavorable ultimatums allows companies to 'lay off' people without having to pay severance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Yes, and if you have a union you should talk to them about unemployment protection.
- Cheezemansam 2y ago
  Well if the employer is suddenly requiring previously remote workers to come back to the office, they are in a sense firing them. Or perhaps more accurately "laying them off" because it isn't an individualized thing.
remram 2y ago
If I quit a job because I am starting a full-time job somewhere else, was I fired?
- akira2501 2y ago
  If your boss has to come to you and explain to you that you can't actually work two full time jobs at once, then yes, you were fired very politely. If you understood the morals and knew enough to offer your resignation when you accepted the other job, then no, you just took a new job very ethically.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I don't get this speculation. Lots of comments saying "it was still a firing", which makes no sense to me. Firing is not normally used to include situations where the outcome is totally under control of the person who is "fired". And you say "Paul is clever like that", which just comes off as ridiculous shade to me. Paul may be clever, but he outlined some factual info that, if not true, would just be outright lying, which I don't think he would do. He fundamentally said the decision was always Altman's to make. Also, I hate how this has become yet another case of using semantics disingenuously. Say what you will about the true meaning of "firing", but nearly everyone would interpret that as Altman got canned and YC didn't want him back. That's not what happened apparently. So all the people saying "it's still a firing" feels like the "I'm not touching you" game that 5-year-old siblings play.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

_obviously 2y ago

I think it's pretty clear from all Sam's interviews that I've seen that he is a sociopath. I wonder why Paul didn't see it.

EFreethought 2y ago
Honestly, I am shocked Altman has made it as far as he has and lasted this long. He comes across to me as very creepy and unsettling in interviews. I cannot imagine he is any better in person. How anybody can talk to someone like that for more than a minute is beyond me.
- hnfong 2y ago
  You're in a forum full of nerds and the accusation towards Altman is "he totally looks like a nerd".....