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A lot of people here bending over backwards to try to interpret this maximally negatively. Probably because the "Sam Altman is an amoral, power hungry mastermi
by throwaway_5753 2y ago
A lot of people here bending over backwards to try to interpret this maximally negatively.
Probably because the "Sam Altman is an amoral, power hungry mastermind who was run out of all his previous gigs" is a more interesting narrative than whatever is actually happening.
- ImaCake 2y agoYeah, this is about the most positive and amiable way to solve the real problem of Sam Altman not having enough time to lead YC. It is a testament to Sam's own marketing skills that even banal stuff is driving mad speculation.
- nprateem 2y ago[flagged]
- latexr 2y agoThis is such a tired and wrong argument. People are allowed to disagree with, dislike, and distrust others without being jealous of them. Think of anyone you don’t like. Pick a specific politician you abhor. Now imagine someone saying you dislike them because you’re jealous. Does that make sense to you? If it does, you have a very warped view of the world.
- smt88 2y agoThe only enviable thing about Altman is that he's rich, and I doubt anyone here hates all rich people out of jealousy.
- latexr 2y ago> It is a testament to Sam's own marketing skills that even banal stuff is driving mad speculation. That’s beginning to enter “he’s playing 5D chess and making you think exactly what he wants” territory. Would you say that it’s a testament to tobacco companies’ marketing skills that everyone talks about cigarettes being cancerous? The mad speculation is due to him being CEO of a highly talked about company but also the creator of dubious exploitative ventures[1][2] and rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, many of which talk in vague terms instead of being specific from the start. [1]: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/04/06/1048981/worldcoin-cryptocurrency-biometrics-web3/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/04/06/1048981/worldcoi... [2]: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/richardnieva/worldcoin-crypto-eyeball-scanning-orb-problems https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/richardnieva/worldcoin-...
- ImaCake 2y agoI wish I could appraise someone’s skill at something without that being considered as a general endorsement but I guess not. I don’t think Sam Altman is probably that great at most of what he would like ppl to think he is great at. But he must be alright at marketing and getting into the right places because we are talking about him.
- latexr 2y ago> I wish I could appraise someone’s skill at something without that being considered as a general endorsement but I guess not. Ironic[1] that that you’re lamenting a misunderstanding of your comment while misunderstanding mine. I don’t think you were generally endorsing him, my claim is that you’re giving him credit for a skill based on faulty assumptions. > But he must be alright at marketing and getting into the right places because we are talking about him. That’s what I disagree with. Would you say that Justine Sacco[2] was great at marketing too? For a while there everyone was talking about her, which she did not intend and didn’t end particularly well for her. Being talked about and being good at marketing don’t automatically correlate. Barbara Streisand knows that very well[3]. [1]: Or maybe not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40507616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40507616 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_shaming#Justine_Sacco_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_shaming#Justine_Sacco_i... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
- muzani 2y agoLots of people dislike PG and YC too, so it's doubly fun to strike up some bad blood between them.
- edgyquant 2y agoI can see why, Paul Grahams Twitter is good enough reason to find him insufferable
- mindwok 2y agoAgree, people need to chill. The thread says they would have been happy if Sam stayed, they just wanted him to choose one or the other which he agreed with. It seems like a very amicable parting of ways when the parties involved were being pulled in different directions.
- mateus1 2y agoWeird times when moral relativism is saved for the rich and powerful instead of the poor and meek.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoI don’t think that you actually mean anything by this. “Moral relativism” seems entirely irrelevant.
- mindwok 2y agoCan you explain what you mean by this?
- weberer 2y agoHow does this in any way relate to moral relativism?
- mateus1 2y agoI should’ve phrased it better. It seems like many people think those in power are entitled to some moral leniency when they should face higher scrutiny.
- burnished 2y agoNo, what you are seeing is people refusing to be spun up into rumor-mongering, which is good because you don't want all the air going to spurious claims and counterclaims when there are factual and uncontroversial observations to be angry about instead
- lukan 2y ago
- meiraleal 2y agoWell, that's visible. It doesn't need to be said and PG doesn't wanna be his arch enemy. The guy's becoming too powerful after all
- gizmo 2y agoWhat you call "maximal negativity" is what I would call skepticism about spin. Giving Sam an ultimatum, forcing him to choose one or the other, is a very forceful move. PG is not universally opposed to people running multiple organizations. He's fine with Musk being in charge of Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink and Starlink. I don't think pg was unhappy about Dorsey running both Square and Twitter[1]. OpenAI leadership was fine with Sam in both roles. But Sam had to either quit OpenAI or quit YC, and would get fired from YC if he refused to choose. [1] https://x.com/paulg/status/1235363862159003649 https://x.com/paulg/status/1235363862159003649
- zild3d 2y ago> PG is not universally opposed to people running multiple organizations I don't see why that matters, YC is "his" organization, other organizations can do what they want Take out all the names, and it's just a belief that YC should be run by someone that's all in / fully committed.
- edgyquant 2y agoRight but this is him being fired
- apgwoz 2y agoThis is Sam being given an ultimatum and making a choice before being fired. Is it effectively the same thing? Yes. But technically, he left to pursue OpenAI. YC never said “You’rrrrrrrrrrrre Firedddd!!!” (In my best Spacely Sprockets voice); it just politely asked him to leave if he couldn’t give 100%.
- l1nktlst 2y agoThis semantics argument seems super productive
- tomhoward 2y agoFired means or at least connotes a specific thing, I.e., is against the will of the departing employee. Leaving the organisation by mutual agreement after an adult conversation to focus on exciting new project is a very different thing to fired.
- bfeist 2y agoThat Twitter thread (as most are) is poison.
- ctvo 2y ago> Probably because the "Sam Altman is an amoral, power hungry mastermind who was run out of all his previous gigs" is a more interesting narrative than whatever is actually happening. It's not either or. The above can be true and also the reason pg wanted him to run YC.
- FireBeyond 2y agoBecause PG is being very selective. Does he forget that it is known that Sam posted to YC's site that he was now Chairman in the day or so prior to him leaving? So... what... they asked him to choose, he decided to promote himself and make a post about it, and then they hurriedly deleted that post and then Same "chose" to leave YC?
- burnished 2y agoOr someone had some copy prepared (you don't think everyone waits until afterwards to write anything do you?) and whoopsied the publish button? This line of thinking just reads as sensationalist or needlessly conspiratorial given that the indictment it is trying to support is so weak.
- actionfromafar 2y agoWasn’t it whoopsied in the SEC filings too?
- FireBeyond 2y agoExcept PG confirmed it: > Graham said it was his wife’s doing. “If anyone ‘fired’ Sam, it was Jessica, not me”, he said. “But it would be wrong to use the word ‘fired’ because he agreed immediately.” Jessica Livingston said her husband was correct.…To smooth his exit, Altman proposed he move from president to chairman. He pre-emptively published a blog post on the firm’s website announcing the change. But the firm’s partnership had never agreed, and the announcement was later (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38384090 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38384090) scrubbed from the post…For years, even some of Altman’s closest associates—including Peter Thiel, Altman’s first backer for Hydrazine—didn’t know the circumstances behind Altman’s departure. No whoopsie there, Sam figured he could do whatever he wanted.
- mattmaroon 2y agoI personally find it a lot less interesting. It’s probably not true and even if it were, it’s still basically an ad hominem. The story is the tech.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>A lot of people here bending over backwards to try to interpret this maximally negatively. This thread exposes who buys into whatever the SF/VC overlords say. "Got fired" may be a tad ambiguous, but being told "stop working on that other thing or leave" is not too far off.
- fairity 2y ago> "Got fired" may be a tad ambiguous, but being told "stop working on that other thing or leave" is not too far off. It's very different. When employees begin working at my company, they're told a list of things they're not allowed to do. And, they're told if they do these things, they will be shown the door. By your definition of "not too far off", we're basically firing people on day one. Absurd.
- dmix 2y agoGetting fired usually implies they did something wrong. Sam was always going to have a lot going on in his life so it was a given there would be competing priorities when he joined YC. It’s like not he was some random full time employee at YC and concealing his busy life. So when a smaller AI project he started (with PGs involvement) rapidly turned into a monster overnight and started demanding the bulk of his attention, it’s not a big deal to ask him if he has enough time for both, and to make a decision early on before it becomes overwhelming (note: he still gave him the choice to decide). Like a lot of entrepreneurs they take on a lot of responsibilities and think they can swing a lot more stuff than they really can, and PG’s whole thing is guiding entrepreneurs to make the best decisions.
- nottorp 2y agoI have no idea what Sam Altman is but based on how he runs OpenAI's marketing I have zero trust in him. The lies start at the company name. What's "open" about OpenAI?
- 1024core 2y ago> What's "open" about OpenAI? It's "open" for everyone to use, for the right fee.
- nottorp 2y agoIsn't it interesting that Altman cries for government regulation of "AI" sellers but not for requiring a permit to use "AI" for their potential customers? I mean, if he were concerned about our safety he'd want restricted access, not universal...
- NewJazz 2y agoExcept Russia, China, and Israel*
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dehrmann 2y agoBetween the weird exit agreements OpenAI had departing employees sign and the Scarlett Johansson voice incident, people are wondering if there's a pattern to Altman's behavior.
- jimbob45 2y agoThere was no Scarlett voice incident. There was a verifiably different actress hired before Scarlett was approached. That’s it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Matticus_Rex 2y agoAnd she sounds more like Rashida Jones than Scarlett Johannsson, too. Wild that this took off so much.
- FireBeyond 2y agoBy "verified" you mean OAI gave a bunch of documents to WaPo where the anonymous actress's anonymous agent said the actress had said things to him? WaPo has not spoken to the actress. And the agent claims that they both have to remain anonymous due to "fears for her safety". I think we have different definitions of "verifiably".
- hn_throwaway_99 2y agoHow many logical fallacies are in this statement? I mean, so what, this still has no bearing on what happened between pg and sama. I may think sama has done some sketchy things but why would that lead anyone to believe pg is lying? It's not like he had to make this statement or anything - it appears much more likely that it was just characterized in a way pg thought was not true.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- loceng 2y agoHave you read his sister's allegations about their childhood? He avoids addressing those and apparently gaslights her about it. There appears to be a pattern in regards to honesty and integrity.