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> I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time I live

> I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time I live in a big city (larger population than Phoenix) in the Uk and I've never even seen a self-driving car. Anywhere. I don't even think such a thing exists on public roads in my country. That Gibson quote about the future not being evenly distributed, etc. Just a data-point.

tialaramex 2y ago
Waymo is basically unique in offering Level 4 Self Driving (hence this article) and they only do this in a small number of locations in the US, such as (parts of) Phoenix - so, yes, you're correct that in the UK, or indeed anywhere outside of those few locations, there aren't real "Self Driving" cars. You won't know if people have Level 3 "Self Driving" cars because unlike Level 4, the Level 3 cars always have a human sat in the driving seat, it's just that maybe the human isn't paying attention and maybe the car is driving anyway. It may be difficult to gauge (beyond guessing) how many people you see are bad drivers and how many aren't actually driving at all under L3... L1 (the machine does some of the work but a human driver is always doing much of the driving) is certainly something you see and don't even think about. Intelligent Cruise control (ie it won't smack into the car ahead but instead slow down) on a motorway, maybe automatic lane keeping on somebody's fancier or newer car, it's not "Self driving" as you'd understand it, but it's something. The way these "Levels" work is L3 to L4 is the point where we transition from "The human is legally driving but the machine is offering more and more assistance" to "The machine is legally driving and the human is asked less and less often to do anything at all". As a result a person who is literally blind and thus couldn't possible drive the car or obtain a license to do so - can (and they do) use a Waymo, just like they'd use an Uber, but they cannot do the same with Tesla "Full Self Driving".
- nradov 2y ago
  There are only a handful of Level 3 autonomous driving systems in existence. The Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot system illuminates exterior turquoise lights to indicate when it's active so you don't have to guess who is driving. I'm not sure whether Drive Pilot is available in the UK yet. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/mercedes-use-turquoise-lights-self-driving-cars https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/mercedes-use-t...
returningfory2 2y ago
> I live in a big city (larger population than Phoenix) in the Uk That’s an interesting way of saying you live in London ;) (Phoenix urban area is more populous than every urban area in the UK except for London)
- andyjohnson0 2y ago
  Manchester not London. According to Kagi the population of Greater Manchester is 2.8 million vs 1.61 for Phoenix.
  - iamdelirium 2y ago
    You're comparing a county area (Greater Manchester) with the direct city population. Phoenix's metro population alone is 4.8m.
    - andyjohnson0 2y ago
      You're right. Thanks for pointing that out. I think my point stands, that even large urban areas in the UK have no SDVs.
grecy 2y ago
Sure, it's also worth pointing out nobody in Pheonix has ever seen a person with universal healthcare or free university education. Countries develop at different rates on different things.

tialaramex 2y ago

Waymo is basically unique in offering Level 4 Self Driving (hence this article) and they only do this in a small number of locations in the US, such as (parts of) Phoenix - so, yes, you're correct that in the UK, or indeed anywhere outside of those few locations, there aren't real "Self Driving" cars. You won't know if people have Level 3 "Self Driving" cars because unlike Level 4, the Level 3 cars always have a human sat in the driving seat, it's just that maybe the human isn't paying attention and maybe the car is driving anyway. It may be difficult to gauge (beyond guessing) how many people you see are bad drivers and how many aren't actually driving at all under L3... L1 (the machine does some of the work but a human driver is always doing much of the driving) is certainly something you see and don't even think about. Intelligent Cruise control (ie it won't smack into the car ahead but instead slow down) on a motorway, maybe automatic lane keeping on somebody's fancier or newer car, it's not "Self driving" as you'd understand it, but it's something. The way these "Levels" work is L3 to L4 is the point where we transition from "The human is legally driving but the machine is offering more and more assistance" to "The machine is legally driving and the human is asked less and less often to do anything at all". As a result a person who is literally blind and thus couldn't possible drive the car or obtain a license to do so - can (and they do) use a Waymo, just like they'd use an Uber, but they cannot do the same with Tesla "Full Self Driving".

nradov 2y ago
There are only a handful of Level 3 autonomous driving systems in existence. The Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot system illuminates exterior turquoise lights to indicate when it's active so you don't have to guess who is driving. I'm not sure whether Drive Pilot is available in the UK yet. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/mercedes-use-turquoise-lights-self-driving-cars https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/mercedes-use-t...

returningfory2 2y ago

> I live in a big city (larger population than Phoenix) in the Uk That’s an interesting way of saying you live in London ;) (Phoenix urban area is more populous than every urban area in the UK except for London)

andyjohnson0 2y ago
Manchester not London. According to Kagi the population of Greater Manchester is 2.8 million vs 1.61 for Phoenix.
- iamdelirium 2y ago
  You're comparing a county area (Greater Manchester) with the direct city population. Phoenix's metro population alone is 4.8m.
  - andyjohnson0 2y ago
    You're right. Thanks for pointing that out. I think my point stands, that even large urban areas in the UK have no SDVs.

grecy 2y ago

Sure, it's also worth pointing out nobody in Pheonix has ever seen a person with universal healthcare or free university education. Countries develop at different rates on different things.