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Glossing over the part where you try to tell a judge a company should be owned by its assets, why do you think the 'autonomous' in autonomous cars means they wo

Glossing over the part where you try to tell a judge a company should be owned by its assets, why do you think the 'autonomous' in autonomous cars means they would also be able to do hiring, planning, assign work etc?

6510 2y ago
I'm guilty of thoughts about autonomous companies. They don't require AI necessarily, just a formula to hire reliable humans. One could short cut to the gedankenexperiment by assuming the company owner is a p-zombie[0]. It would boil down to the same thing without scaring the humans. Even the judge would have to accept it. edit: What to do when people get brain chips? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
- namaria 2y ago
  Ah wishful thinking. Got it.
- gravescale 2y ago
  You should read Accelerando and the Saturn's Children books by Charles Stross if autonomous corporate structures are your thing.
- zellyn 2y ago
  The self-owned car company idea is fighting in my "list of short stories I'd write if I had the skill and got off my ass and did it" with a variant where the company is formed in middle ages Europe, and driven (at least at first) by written policy, in exactly that way. There would be a legal firm to handle direct tasks, and vetting contractors, then an auditing legal firm. A CEO-type, and various checks/fail-safes. Periodically hire competent groups to come up with new ideas and have a policy for updating the policy. One of the "ideas" people would eventually realize the need for failsafes for the failsafes: taking control of the entity's assets would become extremely profitable. So you need some kind of secret society to keep an eye on things and execute the assassinate-and-reset plan when necessary. Naturally its influence would need to turn malign, after it was too powerful for anyone to stop it…
  - 6510 2y ago
    Your taxi company should start in the middle ages and gradually develop for 1500 years. A friend from Türkiye told me in his village they take turns taking everyone's cows to pasture every morning and back home at the end of the day. Some homes are abandoned, people died, the gates are open, the cows still living there just join the heard and go back home at the end of the day. Horses or dogs should be able to learn to walk from A to B if they get food there. If you don't pay them they should eventually refuse (specially if it is you again) and require some payment in advance. Younglings can be tied to the cart. I think they will know their route eventually. You could even have a Musk like figure promising it will work next year for the first few decades.
ddalex 2y ago
If companies can do stock buybacks, they theoretically can buy back 100% of the stock, giving ownership of the company to itself, basically its own assets ? I dont see the problem.
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  Share buybacks don’t put shares on the balance sheet. It reduces outstanding share count. It’s the opposite of dilution.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  You don't see the problem but after companies repurchase shares the company is always owned by the remaining shareholders - who essentially always own 100% of the stock.
- gamblor956 2y ago
  A company that buys back all of its stock is treated as liquidating. Nor is it possible in the West for two companies to own 100% of each other's shares (i.e., circular ownership). In most of the West, a subsidiary acquiring its parent's stock is treated as a redemption of those shares (i.e., as if those shares were returned to the parent), assuming the transaction is even allowed.
mannykannot 2y ago
While I am not taking the proposal particularly seriously, I think it's fair to say that we have something close to a model for a company being owned by its assets in law and other professional partnerships.
- nradov 2y ago
  In a partnership, the partners are not classified as "assets" in either the accounting or legal senses of the word.
  - mannykannot 2y ago
    Well, yes, there are all sorts of ways in which it is not exactly the same.
zellyn 2y ago
Presumably a high-reputation law firm, paid enough, would be willing to hire executives, hiring staff, etc.

6510 2y ago

I'm guilty of thoughts about autonomous companies. They don't require AI necessarily, just a formula to hire reliable humans. One could short cut to the gedankenexperiment by assuming the company owner is a p-zombie[0]. It would boil down to the same thing without scaring the humans. Even the judge would have to accept it. edit: What to do when people get brain chips? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

namaria 2y ago
Ah wishful thinking. Got it.
gravescale 2y ago
You should read Accelerando and the Saturn's Children books by Charles Stross if autonomous corporate structures are your thing.
zellyn 2y ago
The self-owned car company idea is fighting in my "list of short stories I'd write if I had the skill and got off my ass and did it" with a variant where the company is formed in middle ages Europe, and driven (at least at first) by written policy, in exactly that way. There would be a legal firm to handle direct tasks, and vetting contractors, then an auditing legal firm. A CEO-type, and various checks/fail-safes. Periodically hire competent groups to come up with new ideas and have a policy for updating the policy. One of the "ideas" people would eventually realize the need for failsafes for the failsafes: taking control of the entity's assets would become extremely profitable. So you need some kind of secret society to keep an eye on things and execute the assassinate-and-reset plan when necessary. Naturally its influence would need to turn malign, after it was too powerful for anyone to stop it…
- 6510 2y ago
  Your taxi company should start in the middle ages and gradually develop for 1500 years. A friend from Türkiye told me in his village they take turns taking everyone's cows to pasture every morning and back home at the end of the day. Some homes are abandoned, people died, the gates are open, the cows still living there just join the heard and go back home at the end of the day. Horses or dogs should be able to learn to walk from A to B if they get food there. If you don't pay them they should eventually refuse (specially if it is you again) and require some payment in advance. Younglings can be tied to the cart. I think they will know their route eventually. You could even have a Musk like figure promising it will work next year for the first few decades.

ddalex 2y ago

If companies can do stock buybacks, they theoretically can buy back 100% of the stock, giving ownership of the company to itself, basically its own assets ? I dont see the problem.

vineyardmike 2y ago
Share buybacks don’t put shares on the balance sheet. It reduces outstanding share count. It’s the opposite of dilution.
kgwgk 2y ago
You don't see the problem but after companies repurchase shares the company is always owned by the remaining shareholders - who essentially always own 100% of the stock.
gamblor956 2y ago
A company that buys back all of its stock is treated as liquidating. Nor is it possible in the West for two companies to own 100% of each other's shares (i.e., circular ownership). In most of the West, a subsidiary acquiring its parent's stock is treated as a redemption of those shares (i.e., as if those shares were returned to the parent), assuming the transaction is even allowed.

mannykannot 2y ago

While I am not taking the proposal particularly seriously, I think it's fair to say that we have something close to a model for a company being owned by its assets in law and other professional partnerships.

nradov 2y ago
In a partnership, the partners are not classified as "assets" in either the accounting or legal senses of the word.
- mannykannot 2y ago
  Well, yes, there are all sorts of ways in which it is not exactly the same.

zellyn 2y ago

Presumably a high-reputation law firm, paid enough, would be willing to hire executives, hiring staff, etc.