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A friend that previously sold payload delivery for SpaceX and now does so for a competitor recently shared perspective on the Starlink venture. SpaceX sells pay

A friend that previously sold payload delivery for SpaceX and now does so for a competitor recently shared perspective on the Starlink venture. SpaceX sells payload delivery to telecom companies. Starlink is a current competitor to some of these companies and potentially increasingly so (whether through Starlink or other SpaceX ventures) in the future. The most effective way to sell payload delivery against SpaceX is to invoke the fear of further vertical integration and competition from them; SpaceX is otherwise the obvious choice on cost, options, and track record. Not dissimilar from retailers deciding whether to embrace Amazon as a distribution channel or not.

AlexandrB 2y ago
Forget distribution channel, many retailers avoid AWS so they don't funnel money into a competitor.
- mandeepj 2y ago
  > so they don't funnel money into a competitor. Not just money, but data also
  - cptskippy 2y ago
    Which is arguably more important. Amazon knows what sells and who is selling it. It can surgically strike and offer products it knows will sell well.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Its amazing that Amazon has gotten away with this for so long without being hammered with antitrust violations. The idea that a marketplace could turn around and sell their own products that directly compete with third party sellers is insane. Come to think of it, I assume Walmart would fall into this problem as well.
      - derektank 2y ago
        Every retailer I can think of (Kroger, Walmart, Costco, Target) maintains private label branded products that are sold alongside competitors.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        And Kroger's branded products are almost always cheaper. Oh, the humanity!
        manfre 2y ago
        Not every retailer's primary service is allowing anyone to sell whatever in their stores. Amazon is more similar to a flea market organizer that sets up their own massive both. They can put their items in front of customers first and decide what to sell based upon what they see people carry away.
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The biggest retailers, Walmart and Target and Kroger, allow anyone to sell whatever on their website/app. Same as Amazon.
      - input_sh 2y ago
        FTC's whole yearly budget is under half a billion, Amazon and the rest can very easily throw more lawyers at a problem. You'd think the government would be the Goliath in this battle, but it's the other way around. FTC is more of a nuicanse than an actual problem, and it's gonna remain that way for as long as FTC keeps operating on a shoestring budget.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The “marketplace” is the internet. Anyone can make a website and sell goods, with the same amount of effort as going to Amazon.com
        HappMacDonald 2y ago
  - simondotau 2y ago
    If Amazon was exfiltrating retail competitors' sales data from their AWS-hosted online stores, that would be a scandal of a scale comparable to Boeing's 737 MAX or VW's dieselgate. Don't conflate AWS with the Amazon Sellers program.
m463 2y ago
> Not dissimilar from retailers deciding whether to embrace Amazon as a distribution channel or not. Honestly, I wonder if Tesla will be similar. They just won the charging standard war. Watching the battery presentation a while back, they're chipping away at battery technology, and every % adds up. The ICE car companies have "embraced" EVs, but are losing money on every car right now. Will tesla start making their cars cheaper and cheaper while the other companies eventually try to buy their way out via tesla batteries?
- Marciplan 2y ago
  I’d rather bet on BYD :)
  - vardump 2y ago
    BYD is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. On the other hand, the Biden administration has done a lot to throw wrenches into Tesla's gears.
    - sschueller 2y ago
      You know that Tesla has received billions from States and the Federal Government? [1] [1] https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc
      - TMWNN 2y ago
        But that subsidy is not Tesla-specific. It's strictly pay-for-performance: The more cars a carmaker sells, the more subsidies (well, tax credits) are provided. If Tesla has received "billions", the only reason other carmakers haven't received the same amount is because their cars aren't as popular.
        FabHK 2y ago
        Eh, there was also the episode where Tesla introduced a battery swapping scheme only to claim higher green tax credits, without actually rolling it out. It's a deceptive company.
LegitShady 2y ago
"They're service is so much better than us, that if you keep using them we'll go out of business and you'll have to use them." "...so they're better than you?"
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Yes, but not quite. "Their service is so much better than us, that if you keep using them we'll go out of business and you'll have to use them, and they're a direct competitor to you." That's enough to make a business think about their strategic interest, not just about the current expense.
  - LegitShady 2y ago
    Just make your own rocket company and beat them.

AlexandrB 2y ago

Forget distribution channel, many retailers avoid AWS so they don't funnel money into a competitor.

mandeepj 2y ago
> so they don't funnel money into a competitor. Not just money, but data also
- cptskippy 2y ago
  Which is arguably more important. Amazon knows what sells and who is selling it. It can surgically strike and offer products it knows will sell well.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Its amazing that Amazon has gotten away with this for so long without being hammered with antitrust violations. The idea that a marketplace could turn around and sell their own products that directly compete with third party sellers is insane. Come to think of it, I assume Walmart would fall into this problem as well.
    - derektank 2y ago
      Every retailer I can think of (Kroger, Walmart, Costco, Target) maintains private label branded products that are sold alongside competitors.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        And Kroger's branded products are almost always cheaper. Oh, the humanity!
      - manfre 2y ago
        Not every retailer's primary service is allowing anyone to sell whatever in their stores. Amazon is more similar to a flea market organizer that sets up their own massive both. They can put their items in front of customers first and decide what to sell based upon what they see people carry away.
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The biggest retailers, Walmart and Target and Kroger, allow anyone to sell whatever on their website/app. Same as Amazon.
    - input_sh 2y ago
      FTC's whole yearly budget is under half a billion, Amazon and the rest can very easily throw more lawyers at a problem. You'd think the government would be the Goliath in this battle, but it's the other way around. FTC is more of a nuicanse than an actual problem, and it's gonna remain that way for as long as FTC keeps operating on a shoestring budget.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The “marketplace” is the internet. Anyone can make a website and sell goods, with the same amount of effort as going to Amazon.com
      - HappMacDonald 2y ago
- simondotau 2y ago
  If Amazon was exfiltrating retail competitors' sales data from their AWS-hosted online stores, that would be a scandal of a scale comparable to Boeing's 737 MAX or VW's dieselgate. Don't conflate AWS with the Amazon Sellers program.

m463 2y ago

> Not dissimilar from retailers deciding whether to embrace Amazon as a distribution channel or not. Honestly, I wonder if Tesla will be similar. They just won the charging standard war. Watching the battery presentation a while back, they're chipping away at battery technology, and every % adds up. The ICE car companies have "embraced" EVs, but are losing money on every car right now. Will tesla start making their cars cheaper and cheaper while the other companies eventually try to buy their way out via tesla batteries?

Marciplan 2y ago
I’d rather bet on BYD :)
- vardump 2y ago
  BYD is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. On the other hand, the Biden administration has done a lot to throw wrenches into Tesla's gears.
  - sschueller 2y ago
    You know that Tesla has received billions from States and the Federal Government? [1] [1] https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc
    - TMWNN 2y ago
      But that subsidy is not Tesla-specific. It's strictly pay-for-performance: The more cars a carmaker sells, the more subsidies (well, tax credits) are provided. If Tesla has received "billions", the only reason other carmakers haven't received the same amount is because their cars aren't as popular.
      - FabHK 2y ago
        Eh, there was also the episode where Tesla introduced a battery swapping scheme only to claim higher green tax credits, without actually rolling it out. It's a deceptive company.

LegitShady 2y ago

"They're service is so much better than us, that if you keep using them we'll go out of business and you'll have to use them." "...so they're better than you?"

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Yes, but not quite. "Their service is so much better than us, that if you keep using them we'll go out of business and you'll have to use them, and they're a direct competitor to you." That's enough to make a business think about their strategic interest, not just about the current expense.
- LegitShady 2y ago
  Just make your own rocket company and beat them.