7 ms·

The whole saga is an interesting case study for theoretical versus real power. On paper the board has the power and it’s their job to monitor and hire/fire the

The whole saga is an interesting case study for theoretical versus real power. On paper the board has the power and it’s their job to monitor and hire/fire the execs. But they’re dependent on the execs for info. Also having one investor own half, plus the founders guiding the roadmap and having sway over key hires leaving is where the real power is…

esafak 2y ago
Positional- vs relational power, to be more accurate.
cvalka 2y ago
They just folded. They were not the right people for the task. They would have prevailed with a bit more persistence and better PR.
- zucker42 2y ago
  Exactly. If the board had the reasons in this article ready to go when they fired Altman, things may have gone much differently.
  - sethammons 2y ago
    totally agreed. I've been on the inside of two public fiascos. In both cases, rumor and intrigue ruled because the powers that be would not issue statements. The most prolific one I was on the inside(ish) for was Donglegate from the SendGrid perspective. I firmly believe more open communication would have made that go better.
    - cobbzilla 2y ago
      I’m very curious how Donglegate was destined to be anything but a dumpster fire from moment number one. SendGrid wasn’t perfect by any stretch, but how could it have been better handled? Openly admitting that they fired someone as ransom for a DDOS?
      - sethammons 2y ago
        I believe the response grew to the ddos in part due to silence. With no word from the inside, mob justice took over. Had the company immediately said something along the lines of this looks bad and we want to help fix it, Anonymous may not have targeted the company.
        cobbzilla 2y ago
        Thank you, I didn’t consider the timing aspect. I could see prompt and clear communications as being helpful.
huevosabio 2y ago
From A Song of Ice and Fire: ``` Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.” “So power is a mummer’s trick?” “A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” ```
- jeffrallen 2y ago
  If you have ever been responsible for managing the security of your team in the face of rumors, this conversation rings of truth. The humanitarian organization I worked for eradicated every last small-head US dollar from circulation in our salary payments in 24 hours because the staff brought us a rumour that was circulating in the market that small-head dollars would not be accepted by the banks anymore. Rumors can kill (literally, or maybe if you're lucky, only morale).
  - edmundsauto 2y ago
    What is a small head dollar? Coins versus bills?
    - yencabulator 2y ago
      I think they mean a $100 bill printed before 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US100DollarBills-Old%262013.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US100DollarBills-Old%2620...
  - trogdor 2y ago
    What humanitarian organization did you work for that pays its employees in cash?
    - jeffrallen 2y ago
      There are times and places where banks are not operating. In those places you work with cash.
jdminhbg 2y ago
> On paper the board has the power and it’s their job to monitor and hire/fire the execs. But they’re dependent on the execs for info. It's way worse for the OpenAI board position in this case, because the company is basically just an assemblage of researchers, engineers, and Microsoft Azure credits. They can replace the CEO if they want, but all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- habitue 2y ago
  > the company is basically just an assemblage of <people> and <capital>. They can replace the CEO if they want, but all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it. This is generally true of any company
  - underdeserver 2y ago
    Not really. There are long term contracts, IP, infrastructure and product moats. OpenAI has virtually none of that.
  - jdminhbg 2y ago
    OpenAI is substantially different from other companies in that the capital part is almost totally ephemeral (the Azure credits). Amazon employees can’t just walk across the street and start a new company because they’d be leaving all the warehouses and trucks behind.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      to put a yet finer point on it, Microsoft owns the infrastructure, and can afford to throw vast sums of money at the researchers to get them hired, if needed, assuming the GOOG or other big players don't get at them first.
  - jokethrowaway 2y ago

esafak 2y ago

Positional- vs relational power, to be more accurate.

cvalka 2y ago

They just folded. They were not the right people for the task. They would have prevailed with a bit more persistence and better PR.

zucker42 2y ago
Exactly. If the board had the reasons in this article ready to go when they fired Altman, things may have gone much differently.
- sethammons 2y ago
  totally agreed. I've been on the inside of two public fiascos. In both cases, rumor and intrigue ruled because the powers that be would not issue statements. The most prolific one I was on the inside(ish) for was Donglegate from the SendGrid perspective. I firmly believe more open communication would have made that go better.
  - cobbzilla 2y ago
    I’m very curious how Donglegate was destined to be anything but a dumpster fire from moment number one. SendGrid wasn’t perfect by any stretch, but how could it have been better handled? Openly admitting that they fired someone as ransom for a DDOS?
    - sethammons 2y ago
      I believe the response grew to the ddos in part due to silence. With no word from the inside, mob justice took over. Had the company immediately said something along the lines of this looks bad and we want to help fix it, Anonymous may not have targeted the company.
      - cobbzilla 2y ago
        Thank you, I didn’t consider the timing aspect. I could see prompt and clear communications as being helpful.

huevosabio 2y ago

From A Song of Ice and Fire: ``` Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.” “So power is a mummer’s trick?” “A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” ```

jeffrallen 2y ago
If you have ever been responsible for managing the security of your team in the face of rumors, this conversation rings of truth. The humanitarian organization I worked for eradicated every last small-head US dollar from circulation in our salary payments in 24 hours because the staff brought us a rumour that was circulating in the market that small-head dollars would not be accepted by the banks anymore. Rumors can kill (literally, or maybe if you're lucky, only morale).
- edmundsauto 2y ago
  What is a small head dollar? Coins versus bills?
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    I think they mean a $100 bill printed before 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US100DollarBills-Old%262013.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US100DollarBills-Old%2620...
- trogdor 2y ago
  What humanitarian organization did you work for that pays its employees in cash?
  - jeffrallen 2y ago
    There are times and places where banks are not operating. In those places you work with cash.

jdminhbg 2y ago

> On paper the board has the power and it’s their job to monitor and hire/fire the execs. But they’re dependent on the execs for info. It's way worse for the OpenAI board position in this case, because the company is basically just an assemblage of researchers, engineers, and Microsoft Azure credits. They can replace the CEO if they want, but all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
habitue 2y ago
> the company is basically just an assemblage of <people> and <capital>. They can replace the CEO if they want, but all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it. This is generally true of any company
- underdeserver 2y ago
  Not really. There are long term contracts, IP, infrastructure and product moats. OpenAI has virtually none of that.
- jdminhbg 2y ago
  OpenAI is substantially different from other companies in that the capital part is almost totally ephemeral (the Azure credits). Amazon employees can’t just walk across the street and start a new company because they’d be leaving all the warehouses and trucks behind.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    to put a yet finer point on it, Microsoft owns the infrastructure, and can afford to throw vast sums of money at the researchers to get them hired, if needed, assuming the GOOG or other big players don't get at them first.
- jokethrowaway 2y ago