5 ms·

Why is MAID being pushed to begin with? I can't wrap my head around it.

by MisterDizzy 2y ago

spoonjim 2y ago
Governments can use it to get rid of people who inconvenience the State
- tharmas 2y ago
  Don't know why u were downvoted (not by me) but this is a fact. I know someone who personally experienced this.
  - Fauntleroy 2y ago
    Care to elaborate on this? It does seem quite pertinent to the conversation.
    - tharmas 2y ago
      I know the person personally. They went into the hospital emergency with chest complaints. The person in question had no address and no relatives. The doctors there wouldn't admit him. They suggested he use MAID. Yes, they actually suggested it. Three weeks later he returned to the same hospital with a relative and they admitted him. He had heart failure. The doctors admitted they their mistake the first time and should have admitted him.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    I got downvoted for this!? Wow, hacker news is almost as bad as reddit.
- blackoil 2y ago
  Why go through long process involving conspiring with lawyers, doctors and judges? If govt wants it they can find hitman
  - PartiallyTyped 2y ago
    Even hiring a hitman sounds too much work.
  - spoonjim 2y ago
    Because if someone gets popped in an alley that raises questions. Here it seems like a person's choice themselves so the government isn't blamed (even though they created the conditions for a mentally ill person to make an irreversible decision that saves money for the government)
    - orwin 2y ago
      No. People on the street or in squats die all the time in sketchy circumstances. I'm pretty sure its mostly coincidence (and skinheads/neonazi militia wanting to "train" and getting too rough for the poor alcoholic who didn't ask anything), but i the state wanted to lean on ""autodefense groups"" to get rid of a percentage of homeless, it easily could.
tharmas 2y ago
In Canada, the medical system is overrun. If you're 50+, homeless and no relatives to look after you MAID is a handy way to get rid of you.
silverquiet 2y ago
What does personal autonomy mean if you are not able to make such a decision for yourself?
- skyyler 2y ago
  “That’s the beauty, because our law requires that doctors test that you’ve made a rational decision,” Zoraya replied. “Doctors have to test: Is my choice rational, or is it my illness talking?” Seems perfectly reasonable to me. The experience of going on a waitlist and not even knowing if you'll be approved, making backups for that eventuality... it paints a very vivid picture of someone at the end of their rope, trying to end the suffering. Other people in the thread are implying it's a mechanism for the state to cull undesirables and that feels like conspiracy theory stuff / media spin to me. The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with, why would the slow and messy and disorganised medical system have to be part of it?
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jimbob45 2y ago
      in the US that typically comes along with rather radical beliefs about the ability to own firearms which makes suicide rather trivial. There are a number of other levers the US pulls to make suicide particularly undesirable. State-sponsored suicide, like the article describes, would ruin the US' ability to pull those levers.
    - Fauntleroy 2y ago
      Despite my own misgivings about American conservatism, I don't think it's correct or appropriate to suggest that they would prefer for suicidal people to shoot themselves.
      - silverquiet 2y ago
        I didn't mean to suggest such a thing; what I mean is that if someone in the US wants to end their life, they can (and I'll skip any macabre details about how easy it is) do so very simply with a firearm - I believe it is the most successful method. I just find it rather dissonant that the belief that weapons should be so easily available pairs with a supposed respect for life.
mrguyorama 2y ago
How is "it took 3 years to be allowed to have a doctor end my life, when I could have ended it at any time on my own volition without going through the legal process" it being "pushed"? How is "I went through most treatment options available and the law explicitly requires me to do so" it being "pushed"?
janice1999 2y ago
"Medically assisted deaths could save millions in health care spending: Report" (2017) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/medically-assisted-death-could-save-millions-1.3947481 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/medically-assisted-d...
- banish-m4 2y ago
  That's entirely the wrong reason to approach it.
tejohnso 2y ago
It wasn't pushed. She actively sought it out.
banish-m4 2y ago
"Pushed"? Abortions and MAID are healthcare. If someone really doesn't want to live or is suffering greatly, it's a personal choice to choose to end one's life and no moralizing busy-body's business to wag their finger or deny someone's wishes.
- normalaccess 2y ago
  It's amazing how slapping "healthcare" on something magically makes it immune to scrutiny. Need to restart eugenics? Sell it as a free pass to oblivion and prey on the less fortunate to fuel the fire. What ever happened to "Do No Harm"? Killing someone certainly qualifies as harm. You cannot heal through death. Harm /härm/ noun 1. Physical or psychological damage or injury. 2.Immoral or unjust effects.
  - quantified 2y ago
    Now that this is veering to the abstract, are advance directives and DNR illegal? Must every ounce of medical effort be expended to extend life always?
normalaccess 2y ago
It's Eugenics 2.0 - It comes back when society as a whole has mostly forgotten about it. The rich and powerful always seek to control the life and death of the "undesirables". At the moment it's a fun little ray of sunshine for the less fortunate to walk them to oblivion. Once people get used to the idea (even if they don't like it) that then they will really start turning the screws. Can't pay your bills? MAID. Can't walk? MAID. Can't pass a test at school? MAID. Anything that promotes death as a choice will eventually be corrupted and then abused. Before long we will be sacrificing virgins on an alter to have a plentiful harvest.
- quantified 2y ago
  And marrying goats. Don't forget that every change to mores leads to people marrying livestock.
dredmorbius 2y ago
For those unfamiliar with the acronym: medical aid in dying. <https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-maid-medical-aid-in-dying-20281 https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-maid-medical-aid-in-...>

Why is MAID being pushed to begin with? I can't wrap my head around it.

spoonjim 2y ago

Governments can use it to get rid of people who inconvenience the State

tharmas 2y ago
Don't know why u were downvoted (not by me) but this is a fact. I know someone who personally experienced this.
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  Care to elaborate on this? It does seem quite pertinent to the conversation.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    I know the person personally. They went into the hospital emergency with chest complaints. The person in question had no address and no relatives. The doctors there wouldn't admit him. They suggested he use MAID. Yes, they actually suggested it. Three weeks later he returned to the same hospital with a relative and they admitted him. He had heart failure. The doctors admitted they their mistake the first time and should have admitted him.
- tharmas 2y ago
  I got downvoted for this!? Wow, hacker news is almost as bad as reddit.
blackoil 2y ago
Why go through long process involving conspiring with lawyers, doctors and judges? If govt wants it they can find hitman
- PartiallyTyped 2y ago
  Even hiring a hitman sounds too much work.
- spoonjim 2y ago
  Because if someone gets popped in an alley that raises questions. Here it seems like a person's choice themselves so the government isn't blamed (even though they created the conditions for a mentally ill person to make an irreversible decision that saves money for the government)
  - orwin 2y ago
    No. People on the street or in squats die all the time in sketchy circumstances. I'm pretty sure its mostly coincidence (and skinheads/neonazi militia wanting to "train" and getting too rough for the poor alcoholic who didn't ask anything), but i the state wanted to lean on ""autodefense groups"" to get rid of a percentage of homeless, it easily could.

tharmas 2y ago

In Canada, the medical system is overrun. If you're 50+, homeless and no relatives to look after you MAID is a handy way to get rid of you.

silverquiet 2y ago

What does personal autonomy mean if you are not able to make such a decision for yourself?

skyyler 2y ago
“That’s the beauty, because our law requires that doctors test that you’ve made a rational decision,” Zoraya replied. “Doctors have to test: Is my choice rational, or is it my illness talking?” Seems perfectly reasonable to me. The experience of going on a waitlist and not even knowing if you'll be approved, making backups for that eventuality... it paints a very vivid picture of someone at the end of their rope, trying to end the suffering. Other people in the thread are implying it's a mechanism for the state to cull undesirables and that feels like conspiracy theory stuff / media spin to me. The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with, why would the slow and messy and disorganised medical system have to be part of it?
- silverquiet 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jimbob45 2y ago
    in the US that typically comes along with rather radical beliefs about the ability to own firearms which makes suicide rather trivial. There are a number of other levers the US pulls to make suicide particularly undesirable. State-sponsored suicide, like the article describes, would ruin the US' ability to pull those levers.
  - Fauntleroy 2y ago
    Despite my own misgivings about American conservatism, I don't think it's correct or appropriate to suggest that they would prefer for suicidal people to shoot themselves.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      I didn't mean to suggest such a thing; what I mean is that if someone in the US wants to end their life, they can (and I'll skip any macabre details about how easy it is) do so very simply with a firearm - I believe it is the most successful method. I just find it rather dissonant that the belief that weapons should be so easily available pairs with a supposed respect for life.

mrguyorama 2y ago

How is "it took 3 years to be allowed to have a doctor end my life, when I could have ended it at any time on my own volition without going through the legal process" it being "pushed"? How is "I went through most treatment options available and the law explicitly requires me to do so" it being "pushed"?

janice1999 2y ago

"Medically assisted deaths could save millions in health care spending: Report" (2017) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/medically-assisted-death-could-save-millions-1.3947481 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/medically-assisted-d...

banish-m4 2y ago
That's entirely the wrong reason to approach it.

tejohnso 2y ago

It wasn't pushed. She actively sought it out.

banish-m4 2y ago

"Pushed"? Abortions and MAID are healthcare. If someone really doesn't want to live or is suffering greatly, it's a personal choice to choose to end one's life and no moralizing busy-body's business to wag their finger or deny someone's wishes.

normalaccess 2y ago
It's amazing how slapping "healthcare" on something magically makes it immune to scrutiny. Need to restart eugenics? Sell it as a free pass to oblivion and prey on the less fortunate to fuel the fire. What ever happened to "Do No Harm"? Killing someone certainly qualifies as harm. You cannot heal through death. Harm /härm/ noun 1. Physical or psychological damage or injury. 2.Immoral or unjust effects.
- quantified 2y ago
  Now that this is veering to the abstract, are advance directives and DNR illegal? Must every ounce of medical effort be expended to extend life always?

normalaccess 2y ago

It's Eugenics 2.0 - It comes back when society as a whole has mostly forgotten about it. The rich and powerful always seek to control the life and death of the "undesirables". At the moment it's a fun little ray of sunshine for the less fortunate to walk them to oblivion. Once people get used to the idea (even if they don't like it) that then they will really start turning the screws. Can't pay your bills? MAID. Can't walk? MAID. Can't pass a test at school? MAID. Anything that promotes death as a choice will eventually be corrupted and then abused. Before long we will be sacrificing virgins on an alter to have a plentiful harvest.

quantified 2y ago
And marrying goats. Don't forget that every change to mores leads to people marrying livestock.

dredmorbius 2y ago

For those unfamiliar with the acronym: medical aid in dying. <https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-maid-medical-aid-in-dying-20281 https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-is-maid-medical-aid-in-...>