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When a company starts playing weird games with how it reports user activity, something is going very, very wrong. In general, when a company starts trying to ob

by Ajay-p 2y ago

When a company starts playing weird games with how it reports user activity, something is going very, very wrong. In general, when a company starts trying to obfuscate the true numbers about its revenue, growth, or profit, it’s a bad sign. Isn't this.. a good thing? Don't we want Facebook to die and go away?

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
I want Meta to die for certain. I wouldn't mind Facebook sticking around if it can stop incentivizing the spread of misinformation, stop radicalizing my parents, and stop abusing the mental health of it's users in the name of promoting engagement. None of these social networks are inherently wrong in that they shouldn't exist as technology, it's just they are all subject to the same perverse incentives that drive them to make their products socially corrosive is the issue.
- otikik 2y ago
  Don’t those incentives make them inherently wrong?
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    I don't think so? Like, having a website where you can add your friends and create groups and share things between one another is very nice. It's why so many products have grown up with this being the (supposed) goal. Social networking can be quite fun and useful when it wants to be. It's just then the company isn't making (enough) money and starts enshittifying itself to do so, almost universally at the expense of the user experience and in some cases, user safety.
martinky24 2y ago
It's pretty clear that in this usage, "it's a bad sign" means "for the company". Not "for society as a whole".
Apreche 2y ago
Yes, except for Facebook Marketplace.
- goda90 2y ago
  I prefer Craigslist because it works with email. No need to go to Facebook or have Facebook apps on my phone to talk to potential buyers.
  - gonzoflip 2y ago
    I prefer Facebook because I can do an impromptu background check on someone before trying to meet them with what is sometimes thousands of dollars in goods or cash. Also, at least in my area craigslist is pretty dead, and there are much better deals on FB.
  - burningChrome 2y ago
    while I agree with your point, I stopped using CL after several people on different occasions tried scamming me. One, I took my stuff and left after I felt I was about to get robbed for my $200 smartphone. I used to love CL. I used it so many different ways. From getting rid of stuff we didn't need, to older tech stuff I could give away and always have a bevy of people wanting it. Now? It just seems rife with sketchy people trying to scam or outright rob you.
    - nirvdrum 2y ago
      Facebook Marketplace is pretty bad for scamming, too. Scammers figured out that if they just block the person after the transaction concludes they can prevent the victim from leaving a bad review. Facebook sees no problem with this state of affairs.
jader201 2y ago
Yes. And take Instagram, TikTok, SnapChat, and X (Twitter) with it, please. Sorry for the rant. I’m just a bit salty from seeing the irreversible negative impact all of these have had on society.
innagadadavida 2y ago
With the introduction of AI bots, similar thing will happen to messages send and actives metrics in WhatsApp, IG etc.
underlipton 2y ago
It would be nice if the data could be frozen and archived in some fashion. So much (foolishly) moved onto Facebook, letting it just "die and go away" would be like torching a non-insignificant sampling of historical public records.
personjerry 2y ago
> When a company starts playing weird games with how it reports user activity, something is going very, very wrong. In general, when a company starts trying to obfuscate the true numbers about its revenue, growth, or profit, it’s a bad sign. Citation needed. When companies shift from Monthly to Daily active users for example it's a perfectly valid way to recognize that they want to change the way they think about their north star metrics. At Facebook scale, I think it's rather brave for them to change the most important metrics that they report, showing that they're still open-minded to innovate on that frontier (and they are most certainly on that frontier as few companies operate on that scale). Having worked there in the past I would believe that this isn't just a vanity change, most likely a fundamental change on how their teams will be viewing these metrics and objectives, and may lead to material differences, likely for the better.
- unregistereddev 2y ago
  Pardon the glib reply, but if this is what Facebook considers "innovation" then I'm with the author of TFA. How does switching to a more obfuscated metric result in a better product or improved user experience?
  - personjerry 2y ago
    Having the right metrics is very important in product development. Your team will improve the things you measure. Daily active people is the de facto north star metric for a lot of companies, and to move forwards and adjust their definition is interesting. "Obfuscated" is a judgment we're making. I'm assuming internally it's very well-defined. Perhaps they need to better define it outwardly. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and if they are indeed doing it as obfuscation, I agree it's not good.
agumonkey 2y ago
Are we ready for facebook to be dead ? what will happen when the billion of users are suddenly mind free and in need for actual interesting stuff to do ? :p
- Ajay-p 2y ago
  They might go outside and talk to people in person.

by Ajay-p 2y ago

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

I want Meta to die for certain. I wouldn't mind Facebook sticking around if it can stop incentivizing the spread of misinformation, stop radicalizing my parents, and stop abusing the mental health of it's users in the name of promoting engagement. None of these social networks are inherently wrong in that they shouldn't exist as technology, it's just they are all subject to the same perverse incentives that drive them to make their products socially corrosive is the issue.

otikik 2y ago
Don’t those incentives make them inherently wrong?
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  I don't think so? Like, having a website where you can add your friends and create groups and share things between one another is very nice. It's why so many products have grown up with this being the (supposed) goal. Social networking can be quite fun and useful when it wants to be. It's just then the company isn't making (enough) money and starts enshittifying itself to do so, almost universally at the expense of the user experience and in some cases, user safety.

martinky24 2y ago

It's pretty clear that in this usage, "it's a bad sign" means "for the company". Not "for society as a whole".

Apreche 2y ago

Yes, except for Facebook Marketplace.

goda90 2y ago
I prefer Craigslist because it works with email. No need to go to Facebook or have Facebook apps on my phone to talk to potential buyers.
- gonzoflip 2y ago
  I prefer Facebook because I can do an impromptu background check on someone before trying to meet them with what is sometimes thousands of dollars in goods or cash. Also, at least in my area craigslist is pretty dead, and there are much better deals on FB.
- burningChrome 2y ago
  while I agree with your point, I stopped using CL after several people on different occasions tried scamming me. One, I took my stuff and left after I felt I was about to get robbed for my $200 smartphone. I used to love CL. I used it so many different ways. From getting rid of stuff we didn't need, to older tech stuff I could give away and always have a bevy of people wanting it. Now? It just seems rife with sketchy people trying to scam or outright rob you.
  - nirvdrum 2y ago
    Facebook Marketplace is pretty bad for scamming, too. Scammers figured out that if they just block the person after the transaction concludes they can prevent the victim from leaving a bad review. Facebook sees no problem with this state of affairs.

jader201 2y ago

Yes. And take Instagram, TikTok, SnapChat, and X (Twitter) with it, please. Sorry for the rant. I’m just a bit salty from seeing the irreversible negative impact all of these have had on society.

innagadadavida 2y ago

With the introduction of AI bots, similar thing will happen to messages send and actives metrics in WhatsApp, IG etc.

underlipton 2y ago

It would be nice if the data could be frozen and archived in some fashion. So much (foolishly) moved onto Facebook, letting it just "die and go away" would be like torching a non-insignificant sampling of historical public records.

personjerry 2y ago

> When a company starts playing weird games with how it reports user activity, something is going very, very wrong. In general, when a company starts trying to obfuscate the true numbers about its revenue, growth, or profit, it’s a bad sign. Citation needed. When companies shift from Monthly to Daily active users for example it's a perfectly valid way to recognize that they want to change the way they think about their north star metrics. At Facebook scale, I think it's rather brave for them to change the most important metrics that they report, showing that they're still open-minded to innovate on that frontier (and they are most certainly on that frontier as few companies operate on that scale). Having worked there in the past I would believe that this isn't just a vanity change, most likely a fundamental change on how their teams will be viewing these metrics and objectives, and may lead to material differences, likely for the better.

unregistereddev 2y ago
Pardon the glib reply, but if this is what Facebook considers "innovation" then I'm with the author of TFA. How does switching to a more obfuscated metric result in a better product or improved user experience?
- personjerry 2y ago
  Having the right metrics is very important in product development. Your team will improve the things you measure. Daily active people is the de facto north star metric for a lot of companies, and to move forwards and adjust their definition is interesting. "Obfuscated" is a judgment we're making. I'm assuming internally it's very well-defined. Perhaps they need to better define it outwardly. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and if they are indeed doing it as obfuscation, I agree it's not good.

agumonkey 2y ago

Are we ready for facebook to be dead ? what will happen when the billion of users are suddenly mind free and in need for actual interesting stuff to do ? :p

Ajay-p 2y ago
They might go outside and talk to people in person.