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Nice try making Britain fail just like the USSR did.
by cynicalsecurity 2y ago
Nice try making Britain fail just like the USSR did.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoWe all know that the USSR fell because of... worker empowerment.
- Rinzler89 2y agoYeah. Workers in the Eastern European communist countries were anything but empowered. Unless you count being held at gunpoint and constantly spied on by the secret police, empowerment. In any case, the empowered ones will always be those with the guns, hence the army/milita apparatus was in charge, not the workers who were enslaved as before except now by the new management masquerading as communist instead of the old hereditary nobility who got shot/expelled in the power transfer. Workers can never be empowered over the means of production or anything actually, till they first seize the monopoly on violence away from the military which is kinda impossible.
- the_other 2y agoI've been saying for years that the military should unionise.
- marcosdumay 2y agoYou can see how that's worse, right?
- the_other 2y agoI admit that it’s a glib and naive suggestion. But also, no, I’m foggy as to why it’s “worse”. The upside I see is that rank & file soldiers and support staff could meanjngfully oppose engagements they didn’t believe in, which currently can’t happen. I saw this as a step towards breaking the state monopoly on violence. What are the downsides?
- marcosdumay 2y agoOh, you just pushed the assumption that that specific military exists in a strong democracy with institutions that are stronger than force into your reasoning. (I wonder if there exist any democracy that strong.) Anyway, the OP was talking about the old communist dictatorships on the Easter Europe. The military forces on those were not composed of people that had it clear on their mind that they worked to protect the little people. Instead, those people were power itself. Creating a government-challenging forum with the people that personify power is a very strong step into eternalizing their tyranny.
- the_other 2y agoI see where you're going. Thanks, that was helpful. I think that in my earlier, admittedly glib comments, I had assumed these things: - strong democracy (as you suggested) - there have been plenty of instances of the nation's army taking control, regardless of democracy or unionisation (e.g. Myanmar) Given the second point, I don't see how unionising makes any difference to the likelihood of a military takeover. But your main point is powerful enough to make me want to think on this all some more.
- slackfan 2y agoThe USSR tried that at the beginning. Lasted all of a few months.
- Rinzler89 2y agoWhich event are you talking about?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- robertlagrant 2y agoWhat you're calling "worker empowerment" creates another power structure that claims to empower workers. Just like, on a grand scale, the USSR.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoThat's not what I'm advocating for.