4 ms·

In true enterprise fashion, they went with Java. Enterprise, confirmed.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
manuelabeledo 2y ago
Honest question, what's wrong with Java? It's performant, has mature libraries, good documentation, and supported pretty much everywhere.
- promptingmetosi 2y ago
  There's plenty I'd like to improve but it's honestly in a very good shape. There's a reason enterprise picks Java - it's battle tested and there are enough quality developers around. Frameworks like Spring for webdev are top notch. Unless you've got a very specific reason to pick something else (python or rust or whatever) Java is the safe bet (along with c# but Java is an order of magnitude bigger I think). It's just people taking memes seriously. Java is great and continuously improving.
  - xuancanh 2y ago
    It's not just a meme. The developer experience in Java is worse compared to some other popular programming languages like JavaScript, Go, Python, etc. The language is a bit verbose, and the compiling speed is slow, hence the development speed is slower. Java developers tend to overly abstract things, so the code tends to be unnecessarily complicated. The JVM also has a high memory footprint, the startup speed is slow, and it requires warming up the JIT. Some popular libraries and frameworks overuse reflection and annotation, they are nice to use but are nightmares to debug when issues happen. This is why GraalVM and Kotlin have been gaining popularity recently, as they aim to address several issues with the JVM and Java. The biggest strengths of Java are its ecosystem and community.
    - peanut-walrus 2y ago
      The developer experience when trying to maintain a Python codebase the size of an average enterprise Java codebase is pretty...abysmal.
      - zo1 2y ago
        A python codebase never gets to the size of a Java one for the equivalent functionality. There's a reason the other ongoing mocking of Java is about its abundance of IAbstractGeneratorFactoryFactory classes.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        This is true but Python codebases never reaches the feature parity of large Java code bases. I like Python up to about 10 kLOC or so, after that I tend to forget what is going on where, but in Java the IDE just knows what is going on where.
        zo1 2y ago
        I hear you, and if you're using anything other than PyCharm (or Eclipse with PyDev back in the day) then that's what you'll find. But try it with PyCharm, it works flawlessly with near perfect refractor on million line of code python code bases.
    - vips7L 2y ago
      It is a meme. I'm not sure if any of this is true and you seem to be contradicting yourself. Java is far less verbose than Go, and the compiler is leagues faster than kotlin's, graal's native compiler, probably most other languages, and I'm sure its faster than Babel. Javac doesn't do any optimizations, just emits bytecode. Why is it acceptable for Go to be verbose and kotlinc to be slow?
      - xuancanh 2y ago
        I'm not saying that Go or Kotlin is better than Java in all of those aspects. I'm just saying that Kotlin, GraalVM exists because Java, JVM have certain issues or limitation. For Golang, I'm just saying that the developer experience in Go is better. It's not just my personal experience, you can find the same result in any developer survey.
  - neonsunset 2y ago
    Should have been C# with ASP.NET Core and EF Core instead. Hibernate is extremely dreadful to work with and no one in their sane mind should even have the gall to ask users to touch it when better options exist. Spring Boot also performs very poorly against ASP.NET Core.
- llmblockchain 2y ago
  There's nothing wrong with Java. It's old and boring, but most good tech is.
- moooo99 2y ago
  There is nothing inherently wrong with Java, people just love to joke about it. To some extent, justifiably so. Not necessarily because of the language, more because of the common patterns in established there
- rodgerd 2y ago
  Also the kinds of people who know how to solve the kinds of problems that this sort of software deals with are likely to be Java programmers. The biggest strike against Java at this point (IMO) is that you don't know what Oracle are going to do to make your life harder in the future.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Honest question, what's wrong with Java? It's performant, has mature libraries, good documentation, and supported pretty much everywhere.

promptingmetosi 2y ago
There's plenty I'd like to improve but it's honestly in a very good shape. There's a reason enterprise picks Java - it's battle tested and there are enough quality developers around. Frameworks like Spring for webdev are top notch. Unless you've got a very specific reason to pick something else (python or rust or whatever) Java is the safe bet (along with c# but Java is an order of magnitude bigger I think). It's just people taking memes seriously. Java is great and continuously improving.
- xuancanh 2y ago
  It's not just a meme. The developer experience in Java is worse compared to some other popular programming languages like JavaScript, Go, Python, etc. The language is a bit verbose, and the compiling speed is slow, hence the development speed is slower. Java developers tend to overly abstract things, so the code tends to be unnecessarily complicated. The JVM also has a high memory footprint, the startup speed is slow, and it requires warming up the JIT. Some popular libraries and frameworks overuse reflection and annotation, they are nice to use but are nightmares to debug when issues happen. This is why GraalVM and Kotlin have been gaining popularity recently, as they aim to address several issues with the JVM and Java. The biggest strengths of Java are its ecosystem and community.
  - peanut-walrus 2y ago
    The developer experience when trying to maintain a Python codebase the size of an average enterprise Java codebase is pretty...abysmal.
    - zo1 2y ago
      A python codebase never gets to the size of a Java one for the equivalent functionality. There's a reason the other ongoing mocking of Java is about its abundance of IAbstractGeneratorFactoryFactory classes.
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        This is true but Python codebases never reaches the feature parity of large Java code bases. I like Python up to about 10 kLOC or so, after that I tend to forget what is going on where, but in Java the IDE just knows what is going on where.
        zo1 2y ago
        I hear you, and if you're using anything other than PyCharm (or Eclipse with PyDev back in the day) then that's what you'll find. But try it with PyCharm, it works flawlessly with near perfect refractor on million line of code python code bases.
  - vips7L 2y ago
    It is a meme. I'm not sure if any of this is true and you seem to be contradicting yourself. Java is far less verbose than Go, and the compiler is leagues faster than kotlin's, graal's native compiler, probably most other languages, and I'm sure its faster than Babel. Javac doesn't do any optimizations, just emits bytecode. Why is it acceptable for Go to be verbose and kotlinc to be slow?
    - xuancanh 2y ago
      I'm not saying that Go or Kotlin is better than Java in all of those aspects. I'm just saying that Kotlin, GraalVM exists because Java, JVM have certain issues or limitation. For Golang, I'm just saying that the developer experience in Go is better. It's not just my personal experience, you can find the same result in any developer survey.
- neonsunset 2y ago
  Should have been C# with ASP.NET Core and EF Core instead. Hibernate is extremely dreadful to work with and no one in their sane mind should even have the gall to ask users to touch it when better options exist. Spring Boot also performs very poorly against ASP.NET Core.
llmblockchain 2y ago
There's nothing wrong with Java. It's old and boring, but most good tech is.
moooo99 2y ago
There is nothing inherently wrong with Java, people just love to joke about it. To some extent, justifiably so. Not necessarily because of the language, more because of the common patterns in established there
rodgerd 2y ago
Also the kinds of people who know how to solve the kinds of problems that this sort of software deals with are likely to be Java programmers. The biggest strike against Java at this point (IMO) is that you don't know what Oracle are going to do to make your life harder in the future.