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> it was near the limit of what's practical without using a fast charger > I had to think a few days out for when I'd know I'd be doing a bunch of driving to m

> it was near the limit of what's practical without using a fast charger > I had to think a few days out for when I'd know I'd be doing a bunch of driving to make sure I gave myself enough buffer Its hard to accept a future that involves this sort of compromise and introducing new stresses for an inferior solution.

Dylan16807 2y ago
You have to think about gas too, you're just used to it. And the future has enough fast chargers that it's hard to be caught out no matter where you go. The future also involves more high power plugs, which would have removed the issue you quoted. If you would mind that issue more than they did, then you just need to get a plug installed when you buy an EV.
- verisimi 2y ago
  Its a different order of magnitude. I don't need to think about fuel every day, and I don't have to consider my week if I have a busy day.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    All of that gets removed if you have a bigger outlet. There are some people that mind that very little and won't bother to get the upgrade, but judging EVs in general based on the 120-volt situation is like judging pasta in general based on cups of instant ramen.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    People who walk out every morning to an EV fully charged up on a home L2 charger (the "high power plugs" mentioned above) very seldom have to think about charge, and definitely not "every day". How would you feel if your car automatically had a full tank of gas every morning? Even when near empty the night before. It's described as the complete opposite of "worry every day".
    - verisimi 2y ago
      It sounds like you feel the same way I feel about a gas car - ie highly unconcerned about distance, fuel, etc. However, going off the post I initially replied to, it seems that this person did have additional anxiety on account of their EV - ie the issues EV's have with charging, short distances, etc.
      - NegativeK 2y ago
        It wasn't anxiety -- it was just awareness after having to unnecessarily go to a supercharger a couple of times. But like I mentioned: I installed a 240V50A outlet, like I think most people will do. 120V15A works with some awareness. 240V50A is easier than having a gas car.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    I have to think about my fuel a lot more on my ICE than my EV. I just plug it in when I get home and it's taken care of. Outside of a couple of road trips that were as simple as punching in addresses and following directions that's been my experience. On my ICE, I think about if gas is expensive or cheap now, maybe I should go ahead and stop at Sam's/Costco while I'm out, but I still have a bit more than a quarter tank, maybe I'll get gas next time. Or I think darn I'm low, I guess I'll have enough, better stop on my way home. And then when I'm there I have to negotiate payment, stand in the 100F heat for several minutes, worry if this pump has a card skimmer on it, and get ads blasted at me. Rinse and repeat every couple of weeks.
- kec 2y ago
  "Thinking about gas" for 99% of people means either glancing at the fuel gauge when you get in the car and making a 15 minute detour + pit stop if you think it looks a bit low for your trip, or just ignoring it and making the 15 minute detour once the low fuel indicator comes on. Electric is on the whole better & cheaper, but insisting the downsides around charging and endurance do not exist isn't going to help convince anyone
  - ajross 2y ago
    > glancing at the fuel gauge when you get in the car and making a 15 minute detour You realize for a home-charged EV, that literally never happens, right? Your car is always charged, always ready. You never need to make a "detour + pit stop", ever. EVs are the superior solution in this regime, not a compromise. This is 100% not a "downside", period.
    - p1necone 2y ago
      Repeating another comment further down - an EV is like an ICE that just magically has a full tank of gas again every morning. All the comments on here calling them inconvenient seem to be either people who are clutching at straws because they want to believe that EVs are bad for whatever reason, or people with transport requirements well outside the norm (e.g. >~200km per day fairly regularly.)
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        I don't think it's intentional clutching at straws, but there are definitely people that are quick to notice the inconvenience of a 120v outlet and extrapolate that into the future when they shouldn't, and into more situations than it's actually relevant. It matters that many people don't have outlets at all, but when we're talking about "how many EV charging stations does the US need" that lack of outlets is a problem that will be fixed.
    - kec 2y ago
      This is only really true if you have a 240v charger at home, not everyone has the ability to have that kind of setup.
- itsoktocry 2y ago
  >You have to think about gas too, you're just used to it. Have you travelled in the past 40 years? There are gas stations on every corner across the USA. Even the smallest hovels have them.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    > Even the smallest hovels have them. Not sure what you are looking for, but it isn't sensible to use "hovel" (="a small, squalid, unpleasant, or simply constructed dwelling") here. "Hamlet", maybe?
- rdtsc 2y ago
  I never think about gas. In 20 some years driving only once I ran into an empty gas station during an end of holiday weekend rush. I just drove to the next station and got gas there. I can drive around with less 1/4 tank knowing I can stop at gas station and in and out in 5 minutes with a full tank of gas. > And the future has enough fast chargers that it's hard to be caught out no matter where you go For sure. I will happily sit here waiting for the future. It’s just probably good to acknowledge this isn’t the future yet.
rockinghigh 2y ago
Most homes have access to 240V outlets that charge much faster, at a rate of 20 to 30 miles of range per hour.
matthewdgreen 2y ago
The solution to this is an extra 240V AC circuit that’s basically the same wiring you already have to power your electric clothes drier or oven. It isn’t free, but it’s also a modest one-time investment that will eventually have to be made (either by you or some future owner), since it will soon be expected in the same way that electric/gas lines are expected to be available in the kitchen and laundry room. The upshot of making this investment is that it pays for itself in 2-3 years worth of gas savings, and your “tank” is always full.
ajross 2y ago
The anecdote was about charging a car on a 120V 15A wall outlet, the kind of thing that a toaster usually saturates. Absolutely not about charging a car with household electricity. Does your home have an electric dryer or oven? Use a circuit like that. Does it have that outlet in the garage or parking area right now? No, likely not. But the question is about running cable, not "introducing new stresses for an inferior solution".

Dylan16807 2y ago

You have to think about gas too, you're just used to it. And the future has enough fast chargers that it's hard to be caught out no matter where you go. The future also involves more high power plugs, which would have removed the issue you quoted. If you would mind that issue more than they did, then you just need to get a plug installed when you buy an EV.

verisimi 2y ago
Its a different order of magnitude. I don't need to think about fuel every day, and I don't have to consider my week if I have a busy day.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  All of that gets removed if you have a bigger outlet. There are some people that mind that very little and won't bother to get the upgrade, but judging EVs in general based on the 120-volt situation is like judging pasta in general based on cups of instant ramen.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  People who walk out every morning to an EV fully charged up on a home L2 charger (the "high power plugs" mentioned above) very seldom have to think about charge, and definitely not "every day". How would you feel if your car automatically had a full tank of gas every morning? Even when near empty the night before. It's described as the complete opposite of "worry every day".
  - verisimi 2y ago
    It sounds like you feel the same way I feel about a gas car - ie highly unconcerned about distance, fuel, etc. However, going off the post I initially replied to, it seems that this person did have additional anxiety on account of their EV - ie the issues EV's have with charging, short distances, etc.
    - NegativeK 2y ago
      It wasn't anxiety -- it was just awareness after having to unnecessarily go to a supercharger a couple of times. But like I mentioned: I installed a 240V50A outlet, like I think most people will do. 120V15A works with some awareness. 240V50A is easier than having a gas car.
- vel0city 2y ago
  I have to think about my fuel a lot more on my ICE than my EV. I just plug it in when I get home and it's taken care of. Outside of a couple of road trips that were as simple as punching in addresses and following directions that's been my experience. On my ICE, I think about if gas is expensive or cheap now, maybe I should go ahead and stop at Sam's/Costco while I'm out, but I still have a bit more than a quarter tank, maybe I'll get gas next time. Or I think darn I'm low, I guess I'll have enough, better stop on my way home. And then when I'm there I have to negotiate payment, stand in the 100F heat for several minutes, worry if this pump has a card skimmer on it, and get ads blasted at me. Rinse and repeat every couple of weeks.
kec 2y ago
"Thinking about gas" for 99% of people means either glancing at the fuel gauge when you get in the car and making a 15 minute detour + pit stop if you think it looks a bit low for your trip, or just ignoring it and making the 15 minute detour once the low fuel indicator comes on. Electric is on the whole better & cheaper, but insisting the downsides around charging and endurance do not exist isn't going to help convince anyone
- ajross 2y ago
  > glancing at the fuel gauge when you get in the car and making a 15 minute detour You realize for a home-charged EV, that literally never happens, right? Your car is always charged, always ready. You never need to make a "detour + pit stop", ever. EVs are the superior solution in this regime, not a compromise. This is 100% not a "downside", period.
  - p1necone 2y ago
    Repeating another comment further down - an EV is like an ICE that just magically has a full tank of gas again every morning. All the comments on here calling them inconvenient seem to be either people who are clutching at straws because they want to believe that EVs are bad for whatever reason, or people with transport requirements well outside the norm (e.g. >~200km per day fairly regularly.)
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      I don't think it's intentional clutching at straws, but there are definitely people that are quick to notice the inconvenience of a 120v outlet and extrapolate that into the future when they shouldn't, and into more situations than it's actually relevant. It matters that many people don't have outlets at all, but when we're talking about "how many EV charging stations does the US need" that lack of outlets is a problem that will be fixed.
  - kec 2y ago
    This is only really true if you have a 240v charger at home, not everyone has the ability to have that kind of setup.
itsoktocry 2y ago
>You have to think about gas too, you're just used to it. Have you travelled in the past 40 years? There are gas stations on every corner across the USA. Even the smallest hovels have them.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  > Even the smallest hovels have them. Not sure what you are looking for, but it isn't sensible to use "hovel" (="a small, squalid, unpleasant, or simply constructed dwelling") here. "Hamlet", maybe?
rdtsc 2y ago
I never think about gas. In 20 some years driving only once I ran into an empty gas station during an end of holiday weekend rush. I just drove to the next station and got gas there. I can drive around with less 1/4 tank knowing I can stop at gas station and in and out in 5 minutes with a full tank of gas. > And the future has enough fast chargers that it's hard to be caught out no matter where you go For sure. I will happily sit here waiting for the future. It’s just probably good to acknowledge this isn’t the future yet.

rockinghigh 2y ago

Most homes have access to 240V outlets that charge much faster, at a rate of 20 to 30 miles of range per hour.

matthewdgreen 2y ago

The solution to this is an extra 240V AC circuit that’s basically the same wiring you already have to power your electric clothes drier or oven. It isn’t free, but it’s also a modest one-time investment that will eventually have to be made (either by you or some future owner), since it will soon be expected in the same way that electric/gas lines are expected to be available in the kitchen and laundry room. The upshot of making this investment is that it pays for itself in 2-3 years worth of gas savings, and your “tank” is always full.

ajross 2y ago

The anecdote was about charging a car on a 120V 15A wall outlet, the kind of thing that a toaster usually saturates. Absolutely not about charging a car with household electricity. Does your home have an electric dryer or oven? Use a circuit like that. Does it have that outlet in the garage or parking area right now? No, likely not. But the question is about running cable, not "introducing new stresses for an inferior solution".