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I’m not surprised — tattoo inks are not regulated and the colors are often formed with toxic compounds (e.g. copper). Then the needle avoids the protective ba
by gumby 2y ago
I’m not surprised — tattoo inks are not regulated and the colors are often formed with toxic compounds (e.g. copper). Then the needle avoids the protective barrier provided by the skin.
Ironically, while working on a drug program that involved intradermal injection, we needed to tattoo the injection site so we could find it later. The FDA was very demanding that both the procedure and more importantly to them the dye would not have any effect that might alter the body’s response to the compound under test. We had to do a whole study just to validate this.
So the FDA is concerned about this issue for guinea pigs, but is barred from investigating the effect on humans. All they can do is publish advice on their web site.
- boppo1 2y ago> barred from investigating the effect on humans Wait they're legally prevented from investigating tattoo inks? Why?
- voxic11 2y agoTattoo ink is not a food or a drug and is not intended to treat or diagnose any disease or medical condition.
- unsupp0rted 2y agoWhereas in South Korea only licensed medical professionals are allowed to open tattoo parlors: > The Korean Ministry of Health and Welfare considers the act of tattooing similar to medical procedures and deemed they should therefore only be performed by a professional with a medical license. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattooing_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattooing_in_South_Korea
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y agoI mean, I’m glad that’s not the case
- voxic11 2y agoThe FDA is not empowered to regulate medical procedures. Those are regulated by state laws and agencies. So even if tattooing was considered a medical procedure the FDA would not be able to regulate them.
- superturkey650 2y agoThey’re empowered to regulate the instruments and compounds used within medical procedures though.
- voxic11 2y agoEven if they don't serve a medical purpose?
- neom 2y agohttps://theworld.org/stories/2019/10/24/south-koreas-imperiled-tattoo-industry https://theworld.org/stories/2019/10/24/south-koreas-imperil... good read. I live in Korea and have had a lot of my tats done here, people seem to not care much about the tattoo shops, at least the artists I'm friends with said they have no fear of prosecution.
- burkaman 2y agoGovernment agencies are not restricted to only regulating the words in their names, and the FDA was named 118 years ago. It was given the authority to regulate cosmetics in 1938: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosmetic_Act_of_1938 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosm...
- gumby 2y agoCongress only authorizes executive branch agencies to have responsibility for certain things, and tattoos are not within scope, not being a medical treatment of any sort. BTW FDA was explicitly barred by a corrupt law* from regulating anything "natural" (a poorly defined criterion) so the same happens with all those things you see in Whole Foods: FDA can warn you of certain dangers from their web site but that's it. They have a summary page that talks about the history of law that apply to them: https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/fda-history/milestones-us-food-and-drug-law https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/fda-history/milestones-us-food... * Herbalife got their senator, Orrin Hatch, to get this law passed so they would stop getting in trouble for peddling snake oil in both their products and their MLM business model. His career was basically 100% carrying water for MLM folks and the music industry in exchange for cash.
- zx8080 2y agoDoes it take only one senator to pass any law?
- labster 2y agoNo, but one senator can generally block most laws by just declaring that they would filibuster if they had to. And blocking can very easily become “block unless this is added.” We’re only a couple steps removed from the Polish-Lithuanian Sejm at this point.
- rayiner 2y agoOne senator cannot filibuster a law. The other senators can just vote to end debate. And it requires at least 40 senators to vote to continue debate.
- hattmall 2y agoYes pretty much, unless there is another senator that's actively opposing it. But lots of tiny laws with big implications get stuck on to spending bills and get passed with no opposition. For example, the corruption at the Atlanta airport is mind boggling. The airport is actually owned and run by the city and when the corruption becomes over bearing to the point that it had serious impacts, like the semi-recent power outage, the state legislature threatens to take over operations to keep the city in check. So one of the senators from GA just recently slipped a line into a spending bill that would make it nearly impossible for the state to do so.
- burkaman 2y agoI don't think this is true. According to the FDA's site they could regulate tattoo inks but have chosen not to. > FDA considers the inks used in intradermal tattoos, including permanent makeup, to be cosmetics. When we identify a safety problem associated with a cosmetic, including a tattoo ink, we investigate and take action, as appropriate, to prevent consumer illness or injury. The pigments used in the inks are color additives, which are subject to premarket approval under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. However, because of other competing public health priorities and a previous lack of evidence of safety problems specifically associated with these pigments, FDA traditionally has not exercised regulatory authority for color additives on the pigments used in tattoo inks. The actual practice of tattooing is regulated by local jurisdictions. - https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/tattoos-permanent-makeup-fact-sheet https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/tattoos-perm...
- Galatians4_16 2y agoIsn't the FDA the same agency that authorized the use of Thalidomide for pregnant women, and then much later deauthorized it due to birth defects?
- kadkadels 2y agoNo, not really. Actually it was completely different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal#United_Sta... >In the U.S., the FDA refused approval to market thalidomide, saying further studies were needed. This reduced the impact of thalidomide in U.S. patients. The refusal was largely due to pharmacologist Frances Oldham Kelsey who withstood pressure from the Richardson-Merrell Pharmaceuticals Co. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Change_in_drug_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Change_in_drug_reg... >In the United States, the new regulations strengthened the FDA, among other ways, by requiring applicants to prove efficacy and to disclose all side effects encountered in testing. The FDA subsequently initiated the Drug Efficacy Study Implementation to reclassify drugs already on the market.
- istultus 2y agoNice case of mood affiliation - "FDA bad therefore remember inverse of reality" There was a swift ban on Thalidomide and the FDA went to the extreme of removing fertile women from all trials for the next 60 years, leading to 2nd order effects like Ambien car crashes.
- Galatians4_16 2y agoNice selective interpretation. Notice how I didn't say "FDA bad", but just asked a question, which was effectively answered. This sort of infered bickering is not conducive to civil discussion.
- dTal 2y agoForgive me - could you please clarify the relevance of thalidomide to the discussion at hand?
- zolbrek 2y agoTattoo inks are regulated in the EU, my tattoo artist wasn't happy about the regulations when they were first announced a few years ago.
- lostlogin 2y agoSome of the regulated ones still cause issues. Had one that was used to give someone eyebrows that got all toasty in an MR scanner.
- hnbad 2y agoMore importantly, just because tattoo ink is regulated doesn't mean discount tattoo parlors don't use cheap imports or old surplus that don't meet regulations. There are tattoo parlors that will tattoo intoxicated people (which you shouldn't do for a number of reasons ranging from consent to health risks and excessive bleeding) because they're their main source of income, there are likely many that use ink that isn't entirely above board.
- hammyhavoc 2y agoTell me more about the toasty brow please.
- lostlogin 2y agoAs far as I can tell, the ink contains iron oxide which conducts and heats when the RF is applied. The person we scanned had too much pain for us to continue. The tattoo was not new. I recall another similar incident too. I also have a colleague who scanned someone with recently tattooed eyebrows and the MR caused very significant pain. The problem would seem to be under reported (see links below which make it seem fairly rare). That said, we don’t have anyone we would report it to and rely on techs talking to each other and sharing these things - which happens regularly. New risks are discovered fairly regularly. In recent memory: smart rings, squirreled away blood sugar monitors, penile implants, penile beads, hair extensions that are attached with wire. A low level of trust is key. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541?mobileUi=0 https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541... http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf
- stevenwoo 2y agoCan you reveal what was safe to use as a tattoo ink?
- h05sz487b 2y agoPlease don‘t tattoo your guinea pig.
- bardworx 2y agoIsn’t it kinda funny that tattooing a guinea pig is frowned upon but testing on animals is okay… Just a shower thought.
- cperciva 2y agoHow things have changed. 30 years ago we said "please get your pets tattooed" because ear tattoos were how veterinarians reunited lost animals with their humans. Now we use RFID tags and tattooing is frowned upon.
- Suppafly 2y agoThe often tattoo strays as part of those neuter and release programs.
- gumby 2y agoWhy not? We tattoo all sorts of food animals, which is what they were originally bred for (and I can confirm from experience that they are yummy — they are street food in the Andes). Not that I have eaten the ones bred for medical research. But a fun side point: we did drug program for which the FDA insisted that preclinical studies be done in mini pigs (similar to human skin) though our research program had been in guinea pigs. The Göttingen mini pigs, like many experimental program animals, are carefully inbred so you can get a group that are genetically quite similar. We had to do the study in Toronto because the labs in California claimed they were being outbid by certain restaurants who wanted pork short ribs. I was (and remain) convinced that this was some kind of racist joke (among other things these kinds of animals are quite expensive), but multiple people swore it was true. So maybe you have eaten an animal intended for scientific research.
- pyuser583 2y agoThe best X-Files episode, "Never Again" from Season 4, is about toxic chemicals in tattoos.
- Terr_ 2y agoI suppose that's technically true, although the toxicity is implied to be more interpersonal than chemical. :p
- HideousKojima 2y ago>The best X-Files episode I believe you meant "Folie a Deux"?
- croisillon 2y ago"Bad blood", obviously