5 ms·

My BDFL guiding principles

082349872349872 2y ago
I'm impressed by the flag; hopefully other BDFL's will follow suit: not necessarily in a vexillological vein, but maybe with their amazonian bodyguard troupe, their secret volcano bunker, or their equivalent of "Solomon" (Blofeld's Persian)? Donde sobra corazón, ¡Ay Curlita! ¡Ay Curlita!
- xg15 2y ago
  Python's flag would definitely be a coconut, surrounded by a concerning amount of whitespace. ("Would", as Guido van Rossum sadly already retired as BDFL)
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Maybe GvR could do a re-enactment of the farcical aquatic ceremony by which he became BDFL? (Steven Pemberton presumably knows enough about Panto to do a decent scimitar-lobbing moistened bint; the question which remains is whether Lambert Meertens has either cross-dressing or sword-distributing experience? Based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhRT0mNiA6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhRT0mNiA6o I'm willing to consider it likely)
    - xg15 2y ago
      > Steven Pemberton presumably knows enough about Panto to do a decent scimitar-lobbing moistened bint; the question which remains is whether Lambert Meertens has either cross-dressing or sword-distributing experience? Some sentences are beautiful in their own right and don't need any context or explanations.
- lelandfe 2y ago
  I liked that "curl" is in the border ornamentation https://imgur.com/a/6vaimcj https://imgur.com/a/6vaimcj
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
As another BDFL, I was disappointed to see that these were a set of principles about what curl/the curl project should be, rather than principles for how to be a BDFL. Obviously, they are related - how you conceive of the project is quite intertwined with how you intend to be-a-BDFL. But the BDFL cannot by themselves satisfy most of the goals listed in TFA. If I had to sum up my own right now, without much thought: 1. keep the project actually alive by ensuring there is clear evidence to all of continuous, significant development. 2. be respectful to all those currently involved, and to all who wish to become involved. 3. always remain open to the possibility that I'm doing something wrong, and eagerly seek out criticism that may reveal that to be the case. 4. notwithstanding #3, accept that I am the expert of experts in most senses, and have accumulated a lot of domain and application specific knowledge along the way; do not get hustled by newcomers. 5. notwithstanding #4, acknowledgement that newcomers may have ideas that hold the key to improving usability, discoverability, functionality and more. In general, strive to give their ideas serious attention. 6. Be nice. Be kind. Be respectful. Answer (most) questions asked of me personally. 7. When it is possible to financially compensate people for significant participation, do so. 8. Always acknowledge the contributions of others. 9. Promote the idea of my own humanity and that of all those involved, in order to encourage kind behavior and an understanding of what is possible (or not). 10. Always remember that it is other people who make my work possible, not me.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- peter_l_downs 2y ago
  For anyone else not familiar with Paul, he is a very effective maintainer of a variety of audio related programs. These are fantastic principles and (as a neutral observer) he lives up to them. Heavy is the head that wears the crown!
- em-bee 2y ago
  thank you. i was equally disappointed. your list is much more interesting. i like all your points, except points 1 and 7. because i think those are project goals, not BDFL principles. i'd maybe replace those with points 1 and 10 from the article. if i were to make a list, in addition to the points made i'd also like to add a few: 1: foster inclusivity and diversity and an environment where everyone feels safe. 2: encourage collaboration and cooperation, discourage competition. 3: have an open ear for complaints about misbehavior and aim to resolve such conflicts amicably. 4h: maintain an attitude of service.
chambers 2y ago
A few too many principles mixing the BDFL & their project, I think. It's ok for a BDFL to share the things they care for, but I would prefer a harder framework for predicting BDFL behavior. My short go-to-example is https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/five-core-principles-of-singapores-foreign-policy https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/five-core-principles-... . If one imagines a world where each principle is invalidated from last to first, one can have a rough idea on how the actions the country will take. My long go-to-example is https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html. A list of rules that they place upon themselves and not on others.
- moomin 2y ago
  The SQLite example gives you a pretty good idea of how the maintainers wish to be perceived, but I think it’s fairly obvious to most people that those that loudly proclaim their adherence to the first ten rules exhibit a WIDE variety of behaviour in practice.
  - chambers 2y ago
    I didn't see self-marketing in their words. Rather, I read a promise: > The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. They view The Rule as their promise to all SQLite users of how the developers are expected to behave. This is a one-way promise, or covenant. In other words, the developers are saying: "We will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us." So far as I've seen, SQLite's developers have lived up to their words. They practice what they preach, while most other software communities do not. Rather, most of the popular ones align with your insinuation: pseudo-religious values and holier-than-thou attitudes cloaking misbehavior. On a side note, this topic inspired me to buy a copy of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict, the original source of SQLite's ethic.
  - samatman 2y ago
    Is this intended as an accusation that the SQLite contributors don't live up to their own code of conduct? It could easily be read that way. If so, do you have any evidence to back up the accusation of hypocrisy? If not, and you're referring to some amorphous group of other people, why are you doing so in the context of SQLite's code of conduct? It would be pretty weird if I started talking about how various people who have nothing to do with the Rust project are violating Rust's CoC, right?
anonfordays 2y ago
After what happened to Nix, I've only gained more respect and preference for projects that have BDFL.
- adhamsalama 2y ago
  Only if the BDFL isn't okay with his software being used to kill innocent civilians.
  - samatman 2y ago
    What is it that you think open source means? Vibes?
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    Glad that's not what happened with Nix.
    - adhamsalama 2y ago
      It is.
      - anonfordays 2y ago
        It isn't.
- meowface 2y ago
  What happened to Nix?
  - peter_l_downs 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - neonsunset 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - 2y ago

I'm impressed by the flag; hopefully other BDFL's will follow suit: not necessarily in a vexillological vein, but maybe with their amazonian bodyguard troupe, their secret volcano bunker, or their equivalent of "Solomon" (Blofeld's Persian)? Donde sobra corazón, ¡Ay Curlita! ¡Ay Curlita!

xg15 2y ago
Python's flag would definitely be a coconut, surrounded by a concerning amount of whitespace. ("Would", as Guido van Rossum sadly already retired as BDFL)
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Maybe GvR could do a re-enactment of the farcical aquatic ceremony by which he became BDFL? (Steven Pemberton presumably knows enough about Panto to do a decent scimitar-lobbing moistened bint; the question which remains is whether Lambert Meertens has either cross-dressing or sword-distributing experience? Based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhRT0mNiA6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhRT0mNiA6o I'm willing to consider it likely)
  - xg15 2y ago
    > Steven Pemberton presumably knows enough about Panto to do a decent scimitar-lobbing moistened bint; the question which remains is whether Lambert Meertens has either cross-dressing or sword-distributing experience? Some sentences are beautiful in their own right and don't need any context or explanations.
lelandfe 2y ago
I liked that "curl" is in the border ornamentation https://imgur.com/a/6vaimcj https://imgur.com/a/6vaimcj

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago

As another BDFL, I was disappointed to see that these were a set of principles about what curl/the curl project should be, rather than principles for how to be a BDFL. Obviously, they are related - how you conceive of the project is quite intertwined with how you intend to be-a-BDFL. But the BDFL cannot by themselves satisfy most of the goals listed in TFA. If I had to sum up my own right now, without much thought: 1. keep the project actually alive by ensuring there is clear evidence to all of continuous, significant development. 2. be respectful to all those currently involved, and to all who wish to become involved. 3. always remain open to the possibility that I'm doing something wrong, and eagerly seek out criticism that may reveal that to be the case. 4. notwithstanding #3, accept that I am the expert of experts in most senses, and have accumulated a lot of domain and application specific knowledge along the way; do not get hustled by newcomers. 5. notwithstanding #4, acknowledgement that newcomers may have ideas that hold the key to improving usability, discoverability, functionality and more. In general, strive to give their ideas serious attention. 6. Be nice. Be kind. Be respectful. Answer (most) questions asked of me personally. 7. When it is possible to financially compensate people for significant participation, do so. 8. Always acknowledge the contributions of others. 9. Promote the idea of my own humanity and that of all those involved, in order to encourage kind behavior and an understanding of what is possible (or not). 10. Always remember that it is other people who make my work possible, not me.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
peter_l_downs 2y ago
For anyone else not familiar with Paul, he is a very effective maintainer of a variety of audio related programs. These are fantastic principles and (as a neutral observer) he lives up to them. Heavy is the head that wears the crown!
em-bee 2y ago
thank you. i was equally disappointed. your list is much more interesting. i like all your points, except points 1 and 7. because i think those are project goals, not BDFL principles. i'd maybe replace those with points 1 and 10 from the article. if i were to make a list, in addition to the points made i'd also like to add a few: 1: foster inclusivity and diversity and an environment where everyone feels safe. 2: encourage collaboration and cooperation, discourage competition. 3: have an open ear for complaints about misbehavior and aim to resolve such conflicts amicably. 4h: maintain an attitude of service.

chambers 2y ago

A few too many principles mixing the BDFL & their project, I think. It's ok for a BDFL to share the things they care for, but I would prefer a harder framework for predicting BDFL behavior. My short go-to-example is https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/five-core-principles-of-singapores-foreign-policy https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/five-core-principles-... . If one imagines a world where each principle is invalidated from last to first, one can have a rough idea on how the actions the country will take. My long go-to-example is https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html. A list of rules that they place upon themselves and not on others.

moomin 2y ago
The SQLite example gives you a pretty good idea of how the maintainers wish to be perceived, but I think it’s fairly obvious to most people that those that loudly proclaim their adherence to the first ten rules exhibit a WIDE variety of behaviour in practice.
- chambers 2y ago
  I didn't see self-marketing in their words. Rather, I read a promise: > The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. They view The Rule as their promise to all SQLite users of how the developers are expected to behave. This is a one-way promise, or covenant. In other words, the developers are saying: "We will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us." So far as I've seen, SQLite's developers have lived up to their words. They practice what they preach, while most other software communities do not. Rather, most of the popular ones align with your insinuation: pseudo-religious values and holier-than-thou attitudes cloaking misbehavior. On a side note, this topic inspired me to buy a copy of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict, the original source of SQLite's ethic.
- samatman 2y ago
  Is this intended as an accusation that the SQLite contributors don't live up to their own code of conduct? It could easily be read that way. If so, do you have any evidence to back up the accusation of hypocrisy? If not, and you're referring to some amorphous group of other people, why are you doing so in the context of SQLite's code of conduct? It would be pretty weird if I started talking about how various people who have nothing to do with the Rust project are violating Rust's CoC, right?

anonfordays 2y ago

After what happened to Nix, I've only gained more respect and preference for projects that have BDFL.

adhamsalama 2y ago
Only if the BDFL isn't okay with his software being used to kill innocent civilians.
- samatman 2y ago
  What is it that you think open source means? Vibes?
- anonfordays 2y ago
  Glad that's not what happened with Nix.
  - adhamsalama 2y ago
    It is.
    - anonfordays 2y ago
      It isn't.
meowface 2y ago
What happened to Nix?
- peter_l_downs 2y ago
  [flagged]
- neonsunset 2y ago
  [flagged]
- 2y ago