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> and convenient as filling up a gas tank in 1-2 minutes. But you can’t just walk away from a gasoline car when it’s filling. And gas stations aren’t very attr

by audunw 2y ago

> and convenient as filling up a gas tank in 1-2 minutes. But you can’t just walk away from a gasoline car when it’s filling. And gas stations aren’t very attractive destination to do much of anything. Where I’m from almost every roadside McDonalds has fast charging. And almost every road trip I’ve taken where I’ve had to fast charge we’ve taken the kids to a McDonalds for a short break and finished charging long before we were finished eating and doing bathroom breaks. I haven’t really owned an ICE. (Used my parents cars quite a lot though). Our first car was EV 9 years ago. But I’m fairly sure ICE would be significantly less convenient for us than EV. Especially with the newer one we recently got that has a more reasonable battery size, which we’ve never even had to fast charge once. Even on road trips. We never go anywhere we don’t need/want to go anyway. So having to go to a gas station just to fill the car with gas would be a significant inconvenience. You wouldn’t want a phone that you’d have to take to a phone station to fill with phone juice would you? Even if it lasted longer on a fill-up (say two weeks)

CamperBob2 2y ago
Of course you can walk away from a gas car while it's filling. Where'd you get that idea?
- ghaff 2y ago
  The signs at pretty much every gas pump in America? Plus it just seems like a stupid idea given that I have far less than 100% confidence in automatic cutoffs especially given the potentially serious consequences of a failure.
  - jjav 2y ago
    > The signs at pretty much every gas pump in America? I have to say I've never seen such a sign. Admittedly I don't read every sign on the pump so who knows. I nearly always walk inside to the store while the tank fills.
- orev 2y ago
  There are number of states in the US where this isn’t allowed, and the latch that holds the fill trigger open has been removed from the handle. Sure you can walk away, but the tank won’t keep filling.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure the USA is the only country I've found these latches in, too.
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Why do you suppose that might be? Difficulty: if you think the latches are a bad idea, back up your point with actual statistics.
      - orev 2y ago
        It’s not hard to extrapolate that it’s a safety feature in case the auto-shutoff valve malfunctions and, when the tank is full, you’d end up with a dangerous and damaging fuel spill if someone isn’t standing there monitoring it. If you can’t walk away, the risk of this goes down a lot. Also, people often start the pump and get back into the car while it fills. When it’s full, they get out of the vehicle which generates static electricity (often in winter months where it’s dry and wool or other clothing increases this) and has the risk of discharging on the handle, sparking a fire.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        When it’s full, they get out of the vehicle which generates static electricity (often in winter months where it’s dry and wool or other clothing increases this) and has the risk of discharging on the handle, sparking a fire. An excellent example of a point with no actual statistics behind it.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        I don't think they're a bad idea and I appreciate them on a cold morning. But I have had them not shut off on a a couple of occasions and it's certainly a good idea to keep your eye on them. They're not failsafe.
- sweettea 2y ago
  Its unsafe, and there are warning signs everywhere warning you to supervise the fuelling and not leave it unattended. You could walk away from a fuelling car... but the failure mode of burning down the whole gas station is so severe it seems a poor idea.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bdcravens 2y ago
  You "can" but if anything happens, you'll be liable.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    Cite a single instance in which "something happened" when someone ducked into the 7-11 for a snack or a bathroom break while refueling. You'll have to dig for it, as such issues are vanishingly rare. Fact is, this practice is universal, at least in the US where latches are provided on the pump handles. Fact is, 99.99999% of the time, it's fine.
    - dude187 2y ago
      The times I've seen it happen will suffice
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        Welp, can't argue with that logic. Of course, it should go without saying that nobody should walk away from the pump for much longer than it takes to fill the tank, if only because it's a douchy move to tie up a gas pump for longer than you need it. But if shutoff failures were anywhere near as common as you seem to think, the latches would be prohibited everywhere.
        dude187 2y ago
        I never said it was common. But it's undeniable that it happens, and the consequences can be extremely expensive if not deadly. Lung cancer is extremely rare, regardless of your risk factors. Yet people are still told not to smoke because of the risk increase over it.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        Let's see. It looks like about a million people a year die of lung cancer, with about 90% of those attributed to smoking. But we still haven't seen any statistics on the number of burn victims and damaged/destroyed gas stations due to popping into the 7-11 for a Slurpee while the tank fills. A temporary oversight, I'm sure.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  The big signs that say the process must be supervised by an adult?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    I've only seen a requirement that it be supervised by a licensed driver (not all of whom are legally adults). It would be a pain for a 16 year old to be able to drive but not to dispense fuel.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      Oh good point - I'd internalized them as "someone has to supervise and it can't be a child" but yeah 18+ wouldn't make sense, would it?
- jamesmontalvo3 2y ago
  While the other replies about the legality of walking away for a short period may or may not be valid, GP was talking about leaving their car charging while they go get a short meal with their family. You could probably get away with leaving your car at the gas pump that long at some gas stations, but if wouldn’t be a very considerate thing to do.
devilbunny 2y ago
I drive past a gas station every time I go to or from work. And if I could stop off there and get two weeks of charge out of my phone with a five-minute fill-up, I would, because that’s way better than having to remember to plug it in. I’m sure it’s nice to have a car that is always ready to go, and I don’t think EVs are bad, but let’s not pretend that gasoline or diesel fuel isn’t really easy for most people, most of the time. The only time I ever had to go out of my way regularly for gas was in college, and they wouldn’t have had charging points in the mass parking lots anyway.
- mindslight 2y ago
  I don't have an EV but I've got the complete opposite view as you. Having my car always sitting around full and ready to go would be awesome. Leaving home in one direction, gas stations are plentiful and competitively priced. In the other direction, they are scarce and overpriced. Lately we've been doing a bunch of trips in the scarce direction, so I invariably end up digging into the cache of lawnmower/generator gas to solve the immediate problem, rather than going twenty minutes out of the way or paying the Dane-geld to fill up at an overpriced station. An EV would make it so I would never have to think about refueling, except for long trips for which I already have to think about rest stops.
- bjelkeman-again 2y ago
  > having to remember to plug it in I have had an electric car for eight years now. I think I may have missed plugging it in twice, as I got distracted by unloading. Neither time a big problem as my regular commute is 15-20% charge. As I step out of the car I walk past the cable. It takes 5 seconds to plug it in. My small solar panel installation on the garage deliver 4 MWh in a year, which is about what the car uses. Albeit not exactly when the car needs it, but that is covered by my share of the wind power co-op I am part of, and of course the rest of the grid. Cheaper than gas (by a lot), no cancerous fumes and less climate emissions. Not going back from that.
terryf 2y ago
> But you can’t just walk away from a gasoline car when it’s filling. And gas stations aren’t very attractive destination to do much of anything. That's probably a US (or maybe some other places) thing but you certainly can do that here in Estonia. I do it all the time - start the pumping and then go inside to the gas station to buy a drink or whatever. Especially with the in-app payment for gas it's great. Never heard of anyone having an accident with it either...
jjav 2y ago
> And gas stations aren’t very attractive destination to do much of anything. You don't need to do much of anything because the fillup takes like 2-3 minutes max. It's enough time to go buy a bottle of water or something at the attached convenience store, but then you're done and ready to go.

by audunw 2y ago

CamperBob2 2y ago

Of course you can walk away from a gas car while it's filling. Where'd you get that idea?

ghaff 2y ago
The signs at pretty much every gas pump in America? Plus it just seems like a stupid idea given that I have far less than 100% confidence in automatic cutoffs especially given the potentially serious consequences of a failure.
- jjav 2y ago
  > The signs at pretty much every gas pump in America? I have to say I've never seen such a sign. Admittedly I don't read every sign on the pump so who knows. I nearly always walk inside to the store while the tank fills.
orev 2y ago
There are number of states in the US where this isn’t allowed, and the latch that holds the fill trigger open has been removed from the handle. Sure you can walk away, but the tank won’t keep filling.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure the USA is the only country I've found these latches in, too.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    Why do you suppose that might be? Difficulty: if you think the latches are a bad idea, back up your point with actual statistics.
    - orev 2y ago
      It’s not hard to extrapolate that it’s a safety feature in case the auto-shutoff valve malfunctions and, when the tank is full, you’d end up with a dangerous and damaging fuel spill if someone isn’t standing there monitoring it. If you can’t walk away, the risk of this goes down a lot. Also, people often start the pump and get back into the car while it fills. When it’s full, they get out of the vehicle which generates static electricity (often in winter months where it’s dry and wool or other clothing increases this) and has the risk of discharging on the handle, sparking a fire.
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        When it’s full, they get out of the vehicle which generates static electricity (often in winter months where it’s dry and wool or other clothing increases this) and has the risk of discharging on the handle, sparking a fire. An excellent example of a point with no actual statistics behind it.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      I don't think they're a bad idea and I appreciate them on a cold morning. But I have had them not shut off on a a couple of occasions and it's certainly a good idea to keep your eye on them. They're not failsafe.
sweettea 2y ago
Its unsafe, and there are warning signs everywhere warning you to supervise the fuelling and not leave it unattended. You could walk away from a fuelling car... but the failure mode of burning down the whole gas station is so severe it seems a poor idea.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bdcravens 2y ago
You "can" but if anything happens, you'll be liable.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  Cite a single instance in which "something happened" when someone ducked into the 7-11 for a snack or a bathroom break while refueling. You'll have to dig for it, as such issues are vanishingly rare. Fact is, this practice is universal, at least in the US where latches are provided on the pump handles. Fact is, 99.99999% of the time, it's fine.
  - dude187 2y ago
    The times I've seen it happen will suffice
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Welp, can't argue with that logic. Of course, it should go without saying that nobody should walk away from the pump for much longer than it takes to fill the tank, if only because it's a douchy move to tie up a gas pump for longer than you need it. But if shutoff failures were anywhere near as common as you seem to think, the latches would be prohibited everywhere.
      - dude187 2y ago
        I never said it was common. But it's undeniable that it happens, and the consequences can be extremely expensive if not deadly. Lung cancer is extremely rare, regardless of your risk factors. Yet people are still told not to smoke because of the risk increase over it.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        Let's see. It looks like about a million people a year die of lung cancer, with about 90% of those attributed to smoking. But we still haven't seen any statistics on the number of burn victims and damaged/destroyed gas stations due to popping into the 7-11 for a Slurpee while the tank fills. A temporary oversight, I'm sure.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
The big signs that say the process must be supervised by an adult?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sokoloff 2y ago
  I've only seen a requirement that it be supervised by a licensed driver (not all of whom are legally adults). It would be a pain for a 16 year old to be able to drive but not to dispense fuel.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    Oh good point - I'd internalized them as "someone has to supervise and it can't be a child" but yeah 18+ wouldn't make sense, would it?
jamesmontalvo3 2y ago
While the other replies about the legality of walking away for a short period may or may not be valid, GP was talking about leaving their car charging while they go get a short meal with their family. You could probably get away with leaving your car at the gas pump that long at some gas stations, but if wouldn’t be a very considerate thing to do.

devilbunny 2y ago

I drive past a gas station every time I go to or from work. And if I could stop off there and get two weeks of charge out of my phone with a five-minute fill-up, I would, because that’s way better than having to remember to plug it in. I’m sure it’s nice to have a car that is always ready to go, and I don’t think EVs are bad, but let’s not pretend that gasoline or diesel fuel isn’t really easy for most people, most of the time. The only time I ever had to go out of my way regularly for gas was in college, and they wouldn’t have had charging points in the mass parking lots anyway.

mindslight 2y ago
I don't have an EV but I've got the complete opposite view as you. Having my car always sitting around full and ready to go would be awesome. Leaving home in one direction, gas stations are plentiful and competitively priced. In the other direction, they are scarce and overpriced. Lately we've been doing a bunch of trips in the scarce direction, so I invariably end up digging into the cache of lawnmower/generator gas to solve the immediate problem, rather than going twenty minutes out of the way or paying the Dane-geld to fill up at an overpriced station. An EV would make it so I would never have to think about refueling, except for long trips for which I already have to think about rest stops.
bjelkeman-again 2y ago
> having to remember to plug it in I have had an electric car for eight years now. I think I may have missed plugging it in twice, as I got distracted by unloading. Neither time a big problem as my regular commute is 15-20% charge. As I step out of the car I walk past the cable. It takes 5 seconds to plug it in. My small solar panel installation on the garage deliver 4 MWh in a year, which is about what the car uses. Albeit not exactly when the car needs it, but that is covered by my share of the wind power co-op I am part of, and of course the rest of the grid. Cheaper than gas (by a lot), no cancerous fumes and less climate emissions. Not going back from that.

terryf 2y ago

> But you can’t just walk away from a gasoline car when it’s filling. And gas stations aren’t very attractive destination to do much of anything. That's probably a US (or maybe some other places) thing but you certainly can do that here in Estonia. I do it all the time - start the pumping and then go inside to the gas station to buy a drink or whatever. Especially with the in-app payment for gas it's great. Never heard of anyone having an accident with it either...

jjav 2y ago

> And gas stations aren’t very attractive destination to do much of anything. You don't need to do much of anything because the fillup takes like 2-3 minutes max. It's enough time to go buy a bottle of water or something at the attached convenience store, but then you're done and ready to go.