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Had a case in Canada where a fisherman ignored the maps and kept picking up a fibre optic line with their fishing gear, and eventually cut it with a saw (twice)
by Scoundreller 2y ago
Had a case in Canada where a fisherman ignored the maps and kept picking up a fibre optic line with their fishing gear, and eventually cut it with a saw (twice):
(I suspect it was a short-haul line, so carried no electricity for amplifiers)
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2011/2011fc494/2011fc494.html https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2011/2011fc494/2011fc49...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracomo_Inc_v_TELUS_Communications_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracomo_Inc_v_TELUS_Communica...
> In 2005, however, he managed to pull up the Sunoque I. He did not know what it was but managed to free his anchor
> The next year, he again hooked an anchor on the Sunoque I. This time he was able to haul it out of the water and secure it on deck. He made no effort to free it. He deliberately cut the cable in two with an electric saw. A few days later the same thing happened. This time it was much easier to haul the cable out, and he cut it again.
> Some weeks later, after the fishing season, while on the dock at Baie-Comeau he noticed a strange looking ship in the area where he usually fished. Later, he saw a photo of the ship in the local newspaper. The accompanying article stated that the cable had been deliberately cut and a search was on for the culprit.
- resolutebat 2y agoTL;DR of the court cases: the fisherman was guilty of damages to the tune of $1.2M, and his insurance cover was voided because his act was so reckless. Funnily enough, the cable owners (Telus) tried to thread the needle of making the owner liable, but not so badly that insurance wouldn't pay for it. The judge didn't buy this, and obviously a sole operator crab boat can't pay over a million in damages (although he did lose his boat), so in the end everybody except the insurance company got screwed.
- cma 2y agoSeems like the insurance would still pay but he loses his boat to the insurance company at that point, assuming carrying insurance was part of his fishing license.
- lazide 2y agoDue to problems with moral hazard, insurance generally doesn’t cover anything illegal done intentionally or due to extreme (willful) recklessness/negligence. Hard to argue that wasn’t what the fisherman was doing at the point he was sawing a cable in half using a saw he’s already dredged up several times.
- charles_f 2y agoMakes me wonder if car liability insurance covers the damages you can cause if you drive recklessly or even purposely hit someone's car
- consp 2y agoThey do, they'll just come after you for the money and will not cover your costs since you acted reckless. Where I live this is the minimum you MUST insure yourself for and they pay out no matter what (to the other party). If you acted in bad faith they will come for your money. If it's an accident or out of your control they pay the damages you caused for you and you are fine. Since everyone is insured by law what usually happens is the companies involved all pay out and then afterwards figure out among themselves if and from whom they can collect.
- Scoundreller 2y agoSimilar here: auto insurers lobbied to exclude coverage for damage to your vehicle if you were under the influence or alcohol or drugs. I guess people may ethically agree to that but did premiums go down? Of course not. A very profitable move for the insurance companies to provide less insurance without handing over the savings. And it even applies to “anyone you let drive your vehicle” so everyone is supposed to be a drug recognition expert, which is even controversial amongst those that are supposed to be the “experts”.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoMandatory insurances (that are mandatory to ensure victims get paid) are often required to pay even in such cases, but are then allowed to (try to) get the money back from the perpetrator. This protects the victim but not the perpetrator, eliminating the moral hazard.
- refurb 2y agoDespite not recovering any money, Telus may have seen some value in letting others know what the consequences can be. “Kill the chicken to scare the monkey
- Scoundreller 2y agoI think they taught the value in letting others know to NOT put things together yourself that you cut an operational cable and report it to police yourself voluntarily.
- charles_f 2y agoMakes you wonder if those cables should (can) be insured against such problems instead of relying on a craber's insurance.
- Scoundreller 2y ago$1.2m is a drop in the bucket for Telus.
- toast0 2y agoIn most cases, when insurance covers a loss, they also subrogate the loss and pursue damages from the responsible party, if feasible... It's reasonable for the responsible party to pay the damages. And yet, it's a risk, which is why it's common to carry insurance for your own liability (in which case, your insurance usually wouldn't subrogate and sue you)
- applied_heat 2y agoTelus’ insurance would have a deductible, they can’t claim for every little thing
- ikekkdcjkfke 2y agoNot even a down payment on the fine?
- resolutebat 2y agoThere were no criminal penalties, this was a civil case.
- mk_stjames 2y agoThe idea of being way out on the open water, and pulling up your anchor and finding that it is bringing up some giant steel-wrapped black cable up out into view as you look over the edge of your boat, going off in either direction downward into the seemingly infinite deep water... brings up some crazy weird primal fear [1] in me. I wouldn't even want to touch it, let alone haul the cable onboard and cut it. I'd cut loose the anchor chain and hope to see the thing again. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassophobia