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Hmm. My take is the casino structured its business to comply, not to evade interest. Further, I don't see how Cloudflare benefits by taking on the risk to char

Hmm. My take is the casino structured its business to comply, not to evade interest. Further, I don't see how Cloudflare benefits by taking on the risk to charge more to help a customer avoid scrutiny. More like: they know it's a humming business and want a piece.

Tao3300 2y ago
Compliance: > We do have multiple domains that mostly act as mirrors to our main domain. We have these for a few reasons. One is that since we are a casino, we have different regulatory requirements we need to comply with in many countries. Evasion: > Another is that we use them to target different global user groups and affiliates and track conversions long-term. This also means that if a country DNS-blocks our main domain, a secondary domain may still be available. This is more like one gang hitting up another for "protection" payments. I had to laugh when they called it "Trust & Safety".
J_tt 2y ago
The way I read the screenshots of the emails from the articles seemed to suggest that something the authors company was doing was causing issues with IP reputation on CloudFlares range. Them very aggressively highlighting the BYO IP feature and then even suggesting third parties to rent IPs from strikes me as a significant detour from their normal “script” (having dealt with their AU sales team before).
- dingnuts 2y ago
  this is exactly what is happening. Cloudflare uses an anycast network, so IPs are shared by default. this customer is damaging Cloudflare IP reputation which hurts other customers. Cloudflare can either fire the customer to protect other customers using Cloudflare IPs, or force this customer to use their own IPs and damage/manage their own IP reputation. unfortunately this is expensive and OP is mad they can't do their legally fraught gambling operation on Cloudflare's addresses for free
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    They're mad that cloudflare cut them without real warning. And they should be! Anyone can get on a big company's bad side, and if there aren't extremely important messages being withheld by the author this makes it scary for anyone to use cloudflare. If a custom IP is going to be mandatory, they need to say that and give a deadline, at the very least.
    - itake 2y ago
      The IP-reputation damage is immediate. Cloudflare is choosing to pass the hard landing directly onto their customer instead of forcing their other customers to share the damage. As a CF customer, I am happy that Cf is preventing another business from damaging mine.
      - jml78 2y ago
        If they had agreed to the enterprise plan and move to BYOIP, pretty sure CF would have given them months to make BYOIP happen They weren’t protecting you or any of their customers. This is a mafia style shakedown
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        The ToS doesn't say anything against gambling sites. Even if there was IP reputation damage, it's not appropriate to cut them off so immediately. Especially when they're a long-term paying customer.
  - shkkmo 2y ago
    > this is expensive and OP is mad they can't do their legally fraught gambling operation on Cloudflare's addresses for free This is directly contradicted by the contents of the article, perhaps you should re-read it.
  - croes 2y ago
    And why did they want to push them to Enterprise service? >$120k up front for one year of Enterprise Doesn't sound like a reputation problem.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  CF calls and says there is a problem with traffic. They want to push an enterprise plan. Customer says no. CF calls and says there is a problem with domains. They want to push an enterprise plan. Customer wants to solve problem, dropping domains, making changes. CF says, only enterprise plan will remedy the situation. There is obviously a sales script involved. “get back to Trust & Safety" Heard that story several times, it's always another team, e.g. "Licensing" that need to be satisfied, or that if you don't pay up, that team will be off the leash. Also heard the pay-for-a-year-upfront for several large vendors who pull this. The reason is, some sales reps need to make numbers, so they shake the tree and see who falls down: "Cloudflare has absolutely no information on when they will force you into custom billing, but when they start "urgently" needing to talk to you you're probably not going to get out until you have a juicy custom contract with them."
arp242 2y ago
> My take is the casino structured its business to comply, not to evade interest It's impossible to say what's going on since it's an anonymous post with no details. Maybe it's all 100% true. Maybe there are some key details being left out. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen one of those outrage posts that seriously misrepresented things. Whatever the case, obviously the author is not an unbiased party. These posts do well because "zomg Cloudflare bad!", and maybe they are, but I sure as fuck don't trust some casino guy either.
- int_19h 2y ago
  Thing is, this is also not the first time when Cloudflare T&S team has been disrupting their customers out of the blue. The post even has some links to other HN stories.

Tao3300 2y ago

Compliance: > We do have multiple domains that mostly act as mirrors to our main domain. We have these for a few reasons. One is that since we are a casino, we have different regulatory requirements we need to comply with in many countries. Evasion: > Another is that we use them to target different global user groups and affiliates and track conversions long-term. This also means that if a country DNS-blocks our main domain, a secondary domain may still be available. This is more like one gang hitting up another for "protection" payments. I had to laugh when they called it "Trust & Safety".

J_tt 2y ago

The way I read the screenshots of the emails from the articles seemed to suggest that something the authors company was doing was causing issues with IP reputation on CloudFlares range. Them very aggressively highlighting the BYO IP feature and then even suggesting third parties to rent IPs from strikes me as a significant detour from their normal “script” (having dealt with their AU sales team before).

dingnuts 2y ago
this is exactly what is happening. Cloudflare uses an anycast network, so IPs are shared by default. this customer is damaging Cloudflare IP reputation which hurts other customers. Cloudflare can either fire the customer to protect other customers using Cloudflare IPs, or force this customer to use their own IPs and damage/manage their own IP reputation. unfortunately this is expensive and OP is mad they can't do their legally fraught gambling operation on Cloudflare's addresses for free
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  They're mad that cloudflare cut them without real warning. And they should be! Anyone can get on a big company's bad side, and if there aren't extremely important messages being withheld by the author this makes it scary for anyone to use cloudflare. If a custom IP is going to be mandatory, they need to say that and give a deadline, at the very least.
  - itake 2y ago
    The IP-reputation damage is immediate. Cloudflare is choosing to pass the hard landing directly onto their customer instead of forcing their other customers to share the damage. As a CF customer, I am happy that Cf is preventing another business from damaging mine.
    - jml78 2y ago
      If they had agreed to the enterprise plan and move to BYOIP, pretty sure CF would have given them months to make BYOIP happen They weren’t protecting you or any of their customers. This is a mafia style shakedown
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      The ToS doesn't say anything against gambling sites. Even if there was IP reputation damage, it's not appropriate to cut them off so immediately. Especially when they're a long-term paying customer.
- shkkmo 2y ago
  > this is expensive and OP is mad they can't do their legally fraught gambling operation on Cloudflare's addresses for free This is directly contradicted by the contents of the article, perhaps you should re-read it.
- croes 2y ago
  And why did they want to push them to Enterprise service? >$120k up front for one year of Enterprise Doesn't sound like a reputation problem.
KingOfCoders 2y ago
CF calls and says there is a problem with traffic. They want to push an enterprise plan. Customer says no. CF calls and says there is a problem with domains. They want to push an enterprise plan. Customer wants to solve problem, dropping domains, making changes. CF says, only enterprise plan will remedy the situation. There is obviously a sales script involved. “get back to Trust & Safety" Heard that story several times, it's always another team, e.g. "Licensing" that need to be satisfied, or that if you don't pay up, that team will be off the leash. Also heard the pay-for-a-year-upfront for several large vendors who pull this. The reason is, some sales reps need to make numbers, so they shake the tree and see who falls down: "Cloudflare has absolutely no information on when they will force you into custom billing, but when they start "urgently" needing to talk to you you're probably not going to get out until you have a juicy custom contract with them."

arp242 2y ago

> My take is the casino structured its business to comply, not to evade interest It's impossible to say what's going on since it's an anonymous post with no details. Maybe it's all 100% true. Maybe there are some key details being left out. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen one of those outrage posts that seriously misrepresented things. Whatever the case, obviously the author is not an unbiased party. These posts do well because "zomg Cloudflare bad!", and maybe they are, but I sure as fuck don't trust some casino guy either.

int_19h 2y ago
Thing is, this is also not the first time when Cloudflare T&S team has been disrupting their customers out of the blue. The post even has some links to other HN stories.