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This cult and its predecessor, the I AM, are cornerstones of American fascism. It’s a deep dive worth doing. I AM toward its end even perpetuated stories remark

by api 2y ago

This cult and its predecessor, the I AM, are cornerstones of American fascism. It’s a deep dive worth doing. I AM toward its end even perpetuated stories remarkably similar to Qanon, in the 1930s. A fun fact too: General Nathan Flynn recited a very strange prayer at one of his gatherings. Turns out it’s a prayer from the Church Universal and Triumphant, this woman’s fascist cult. So there may be surviving ideological links today, or Flynn may be in a cult himself, or maybe whoever wrote it for him is. https://x.com/PiperK/status/1445663165186904065 https://x.com/PiperK/status/1445663165186904065 A lot of this stuff goes even further back to William Dudley Pelley and the Silver Shirts, an American fascist movement. Pelley and Edna Ballard, one of the founders of I AM, were associated. Wouldn’t be the first time cults tried to use rich or powerful followers to gain money or power for themselves. Look into Scientology.

selimthegrim 2y ago
Michael Flynn?
- api 2y ago
  Yes. My mistake. I’m surprised people are low key defending these groups, even people on the right. This isn’t conservatism. It’s totalitarianism backed by new age woo. I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised. Totalitarianism is back in fashion lately. Feels like we want to LARP the early 20th century.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    > even people on the right. Since I'm assuming that I'm one target of this as the only person to contradict you in this subthread, I just want to be clear: I'm not on the right. As far as the conservatives in my (very red) state are concerned I'm a flaming liberal. As for how I'd describe myself, I'm basically in the "we desperately need to reverse the trend of everyone assuming that anyone who disagrees with them is evil" camp, which is why I strongly object to casual comparisons to fascism. Using that word or the word "cult" to label someone immediately frees you from any obligation to engage with them as a person, and I'm not okay with that tendency from either wing of modern politics.
    - api 2y ago
      I agree broadly with the last part but I’m talking about the I AM cult and Qanon here not sane things. We need to stop handling psychotic totalitarian lunacy the same way we handle people we don’t agree with about the use of pronouns or tax policy.
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    Historically, I find that what's politically in fashion tends to be aligned with Russia's interests. One giveaway are those "polarizing figures" whose polarity suspiciously changed over time in alignment with Russia's magnetic field: Gingrich, Berlusconi, Dick Morris, just to pick on some whose mention won't start a flamewar. Coincidence is a thing but this ain't it. Some are contrarians with the opposite polarity, such as Arianna Huffington. Kudos, maybe.
lolinder 2y ago
> General Nathan Flynn recited a very strange prayer at one of his gatherings. Turns out it’s a prayer from the Church Universal and Triumphant This is in the article. As an aside, your repeated use of the word "cult" and the word "fascist" detracts from your comment. Both words have been diluted past all meaning, and using them together so frequently in just a few paragraphs induces a lot of cringing from anyone who is moderately familiar with either religious studies or political science. They're essentially just expletives at this point and don't add much meaning beyond intense disapproval. The Silver Shirts were straight-up fascists. The other movements you refer to were right-wing nationalist movements but I see no evidence of most of the characteristics of fascism except that you try to paint them with the same brush by referring to a vague association between founders.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  They're only diluted if you let them be.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    I assume the objection above was to avoid them being diluted, here. I'm also trying to figure out if you're trying to say that if we just react to the words as if they were being properly applied no matter what, that will prevent them from being diluted. Because that's not good.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    Pray someone doesn't come along and take all of your magical words away some day.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > the word "cult" ... have been diluted past all meaning Another interpretation is that Cult has been somewhat disarmed from it's modern, weaponized usage. Historically, Cult was as a neutralish term. In discussing religious groups, Cult helped clarify that the group in focus was a subset of a larger group. It was also used as a catchall reference to small religions. In the latter 20th century, Evangelical authors/lecturers (eg:Walter Martin) strongly associated Cult with evil and used it to help introduce+nurture animosity toward smaller, unliked Christian faiths. If Cult hadn't been so loaded with sinister vibes, it might not have become the term we use to reference cloistering, manipulative groups.

by api 2y ago

selimthegrim 2y ago

Michael Flynn?

api 2y ago
Yes. My mistake. I’m surprised people are low key defending these groups, even people on the right. This isn’t conservatism. It’s totalitarianism backed by new age woo. I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised. Totalitarianism is back in fashion lately. Feels like we want to LARP the early 20th century.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > even people on the right. Since I'm assuming that I'm one target of this as the only person to contradict you in this subthread, I just want to be clear: I'm not on the right. As far as the conservatives in my (very red) state are concerned I'm a flaming liberal. As for how I'd describe myself, I'm basically in the "we desperately need to reverse the trend of everyone assuming that anyone who disagrees with them is evil" camp, which is why I strongly object to casual comparisons to fascism. Using that word or the word "cult" to label someone immediately frees you from any obligation to engage with them as a person, and I'm not okay with that tendency from either wing of modern politics.
  - api 2y ago
    I agree broadly with the last part but I’m talking about the I AM cult and Qanon here not sane things. We need to stop handling psychotic totalitarian lunacy the same way we handle people we don’t agree with about the use of pronouns or tax policy.
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Historically, I find that what's politically in fashion tends to be aligned with Russia's interests. One giveaway are those "polarizing figures" whose polarity suspiciously changed over time in alignment with Russia's magnetic field: Gingrich, Berlusconi, Dick Morris, just to pick on some whose mention won't start a flamewar. Coincidence is a thing but this ain't it. Some are contrarians with the opposite polarity, such as Arianna Huffington. Kudos, maybe.

lolinder 2y ago

> General Nathan Flynn recited a very strange prayer at one of his gatherings. Turns out it’s a prayer from the Church Universal and Triumphant This is in the article. As an aside, your repeated use of the word "cult" and the word "fascist" detracts from your comment. Both words have been diluted past all meaning, and using them together so frequently in just a few paragraphs induces a lot of cringing from anyone who is moderately familiar with either religious studies or political science. They're essentially just expletives at this point and don't add much meaning beyond intense disapproval. The Silver Shirts were straight-up fascists. The other movements you refer to were right-wing nationalist movements but I see no evidence of most of the characteristics of fascism except that you try to paint them with the same brush by referring to a vague association between founders.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
They're only diluted if you let them be.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  I assume the objection above was to avoid them being diluted, here. I'm also trying to figure out if you're trying to say that if we just react to the words as if they were being properly applied no matter what, that will prevent them from being diluted. Because that's not good.
- mistermann 2y ago
  Pray someone doesn't come along and take all of your magical words away some day.
WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
> the word "cult" ... have been diluted past all meaning Another interpretation is that Cult has been somewhat disarmed from it's modern, weaponized usage. Historically, Cult was as a neutralish term. In discussing religious groups, Cult helped clarify that the group in focus was a subset of a larger group. It was also used as a catchall reference to small religions. In the latter 20th century, Evangelical authors/lecturers (eg:Walter Martin) strongly associated Cult with evil and used it to help introduce+nurture animosity toward smaller, unliked Christian faiths. If Cult hadn't been so loaded with sinister vibes, it might not have become the term we use to reference cloistering, manipulative groups.