5 ms·

I’ve been drinking raw milk for years. Amish all drink raw milk, as do most of the folks around me. Tastes better, naturally has lactase so lactose intolerant

I’ve been drinking raw milk for years. Amish all drink raw milk, as do most of the folks around me. Tastes better, naturally has lactase so lactose intolerant folks can drink it, etc None of us believe anything the cdc says because they have always said “don’t drink raw milk” and all of the Amish and others are the healthiest people you’ll ever meet

lencastre 2y ago
Oh brother… eyes roll so much, can see brain
tombert 2y ago
> None of us believe anything the cdc says because they have always said “don’t drink raw milk” and all of the Amish and others are the healthiest people you’ll ever meet I don't think that logic makes any sense. The "ones you meet" are the ones who didn't die. You're not meeting the dead ones. Selection bias and such. If you have statistics that Amish people have fewer deaths or something, that would be better evidence.
- briantakita 2y ago
  > The "ones you meet" are the ones who didn't die Can you link to any instances of an outbreak of disease from unpasturized milk among the Amish people? Or even among the general population? All I know about is one time over 150 years ago the milk got spoiled on a train in Chicago. Which is why we have pasturization. I found this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/, which seems to indicate that raw milk consumption has benefits.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I didn't look because a claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. What the parent comment claimed didn't logically follow and I was pointing that out. Your link does seem to indicate potential benefits, so I might give it a read, but I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless. EDIT: before you accuse me of hypocrisy, I did post a link talking about bovine TB elsewhere in a sister thread.
    - briantakita 2y ago
      > I didn't look because a claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence I did look & could not find anything. I think marketing fuels a hysteria against raw milk. The reason why vendors say it's "not fit for human consumption" is to avoid action by the regulators. e.g. Having the authorities raid the farm & seize property. https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/dairy/raid-on-farm-sparks-debate-over-raw-milk-oversight-and-government-overreach/article_002d5ebc-ba30-11ee-8f53-6f93227a52c2.html https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/dairy/raid-on-... > I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless Nobody is asking you to. You have the freedom not to consume raw milk. But some people do want to consume raw milk. And there is scant, if any, evidence of the alleged problems. So why are Authorities making this illegal? I doubt it's to "protect public health". The public who wants to drink raw milk don't want the Authorities "protecting their health" in this way.
      - tombert 2y ago
        > Nobody is asking you to. You have the freedom not to consume raw milk. But some people do want to consume raw milk. And there is scant, if any, evidence of the alleged problems. So why are Authorities making this illegal? I doubt it's to "protect public health". The public who wants to drink raw milk don't want the Authorities "protecting their health" in this way. If the the TB is spreadable to non-raw-milk-drinkers then it's ridiculous to act like it doesn't affect me, and the libertarian argument doesn't make sense. I don't give a shit about the health of the people who actually drink the milk, if they want to kill themselves then don't let me stop them, but I don't want them infecting innocent people in the process. This really isn't hard.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        briantakita 2y ago
        > This really isn't hard Yet the governments that you love so much supports Gain of Function Research. Which literally caused Covid among other pandemics. And is suspiciously linked to AIDS. Yet you are worried about unpasturized milk? Your priorities are completely wrong due to your belief in governments. The same governments that cause all wars, genocides, & most pandemics. So I agree...this really isn't hard. Unless you frame things the wrong way.
- lettergram 2y ago
  Lmao I mean, you can look up the stats. Approximately no one dies from raw milk. Pasteurization started before refrigeration was common and when cities became larger so getting milk was more difficult. I think we’d know if people started to become massively sick, people would stop buying from the folks. We know most of the people in the area.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I posted in a sister comment, but you can get tuberculosis from raw milk, and then that tuberculosis can be spread, even to people who don't drink raw milk I'm not saying it's super likely, but it's something worth considering.
  - yongjik 2y ago
    Have we lived through the same pandemic? People will absolutely insist their loved ones dying is a coincidence, as long as they can frame their action as standing up to the government (or whatever they hate). All you need is someone describing the situation as the government holding a gun to your head and telling you to pasteurize your milk (YOUR milk!), or something like that.
- base698 2y ago
  It's my understanding the sickness from milk isn't fatal. There are many foods which have comparable levels and even much higher risk. Somehow raw milk gets all The attention. Like most things medical you can't compare the risk to the population as a whole. Risk factors, environment and individual farms will vary risk greatly.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    > It's my understanding the sickness from milk isn't fatal. Salmonella, e. coli, and listeria have killed people so I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. True, most people don't, but most people also don't die from flu, but some still do.
    - tombert 2y ago
      And tuberculosis! That's arguably the most deadly disease in recorded history.
    - base698 2y ago
      https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-r... Any of the articles about it never mention fatalities. You can get all the above from lettuce and deli meat.
      - tombert 2y ago
        > You can get all the above from lettuce and deli meat. That's a whataboutism, and a pivot. Just because you can get them from lettuce or deli meat doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it with raw milk.
        base698 2y ago
        I'm just asking if you're comfortable about a lot of other risks, some worse, why is this one specifically worse? Because you hate dirty hippies?
jszymborski 2y ago
Raw milk contains little to no lactase, and is far more likely to cause food borne illness. I dont suppose controlled scientific studies will persuade you, but for those looking for some https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9262997/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9262997/
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
orwin 2y ago
I won't pronounce myself on raw milk, we used to buy our milk raw and pasteurize it ourselves (the cream was a bonus), but Amish aren't the healthiest people you'll ever met. Maybe the healthiest group of Americans, on average (i mean, 4% obesity rate is low), but Japanese living on islands are far more healthy. In fact, i think generally, people living on small, rich islands are healthier, with good iodine level (which is an issue with the Amish), good vitamin D levels, good diet.

lencastre 2y ago

Oh brother… eyes roll so much, can see brain

tombert 2y ago

> None of us believe anything the cdc says because they have always said “don’t drink raw milk” and all of the Amish and others are the healthiest people you’ll ever meet I don't think that logic makes any sense. The "ones you meet" are the ones who didn't die. You're not meeting the dead ones. Selection bias and such. If you have statistics that Amish people have fewer deaths or something, that would be better evidence.

briantakita 2y ago
> The "ones you meet" are the ones who didn't die Can you link to any instances of an outbreak of disease from unpasturized milk among the Amish people? Or even among the general population? All I know about is one time over 150 years ago the milk got spoiled on a train in Chicago. Which is why we have pasturization. I found this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/, which seems to indicate that raw milk consumption has benefits.
- tombert 2y ago
  I didn't look because a claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. What the parent comment claimed didn't logically follow and I was pointing that out. Your link does seem to indicate potential benefits, so I might give it a read, but I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless. EDIT: before you accuse me of hypocrisy, I did post a link talking about bovine TB elsewhere in a sister thread.
  - briantakita 2y ago
    > I didn't look because a claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence I did look & could not find anything. I think marketing fuels a hysteria against raw milk. The reason why vendors say it's "not fit for human consumption" is to avoid action by the regulators. e.g. Having the authorities raid the farm & seize property. https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/dairy/raid-on-farm-sparks-debate-over-raw-milk-oversight-and-government-overreach/article_002d5ebc-ba30-11ee-8f53-6f93227a52c2.html https://www.lancasterfarming.com/farming-news/dairy/raid-on-... > I really don't want to get tuberculosis so I probably won't drink raw milk regardless Nobody is asking you to. You have the freedom not to consume raw milk. But some people do want to consume raw milk. And there is scant, if any, evidence of the alleged problems. So why are Authorities making this illegal? I doubt it's to "protect public health". The public who wants to drink raw milk don't want the Authorities "protecting their health" in this way.
    - tombert 2y ago
      > Nobody is asking you to. You have the freedom not to consume raw milk. But some people do want to consume raw milk. And there is scant, if any, evidence of the alleged problems. So why are Authorities making this illegal? I doubt it's to "protect public health". The public who wants to drink raw milk don't want the Authorities "protecting their health" in this way. If the the TB is spreadable to non-raw-milk-drinkers then it's ridiculous to act like it doesn't affect me, and the libertarian argument doesn't make sense. I don't give a shit about the health of the people who actually drink the milk, if they want to kill themselves then don't let me stop them, but I don't want them infecting innocent people in the process. This really isn't hard.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - briantakita 2y ago
        > This really isn't hard Yet the governments that you love so much supports Gain of Function Research. Which literally caused Covid among other pandemics. And is suspiciously linked to AIDS. Yet you are worried about unpasturized milk? Your priorities are completely wrong due to your belief in governments. The same governments that cause all wars, genocides, & most pandemics. So I agree...this really isn't hard. Unless you frame things the wrong way.
lettergram 2y ago
Lmao I mean, you can look up the stats. Approximately no one dies from raw milk. Pasteurization started before refrigeration was common and when cities became larger so getting milk was more difficult. I think we’d know if people started to become massively sick, people would stop buying from the folks. We know most of the people in the area.
- tombert 2y ago
  I posted in a sister comment, but you can get tuberculosis from raw milk, and then that tuberculosis can be spread, even to people who don't drink raw milk I'm not saying it's super likely, but it's something worth considering.
- yongjik 2y ago
  Have we lived through the same pandemic? People will absolutely insist their loved ones dying is a coincidence, as long as they can frame their action as standing up to the government (or whatever they hate). All you need is someone describing the situation as the government holding a gun to your head and telling you to pasteurize your milk (YOUR milk!), or something like that.
base698 2y ago
It's my understanding the sickness from milk isn't fatal. There are many foods which have comparable levels and even much higher risk. Somehow raw milk gets all The attention. Like most things medical you can't compare the risk to the population as a whole. Risk factors, environment and individual farms will vary risk greatly.
- fragmede 2y ago
  > It's my understanding the sickness from milk isn't fatal. Salmonella, e. coli, and listeria have killed people so I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. True, most people don't, but most people also don't die from flu, but some still do.
  - tombert 2y ago
    And tuberculosis! That's arguably the most deadly disease in recorded history.
  - base698 2y ago
    https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-r... Any of the articles about it never mention fatalities. You can get all the above from lettuce and deli meat.
    - tombert 2y ago
      > You can get all the above from lettuce and deli meat. That's a whataboutism, and a pivot. Just because you can get them from lettuce or deli meat doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it with raw milk.
      - base698 2y ago
        I'm just asking if you're comfortable about a lot of other risks, some worse, why is this one specifically worse? Because you hate dirty hippies?

jszymborski 2y ago

Raw milk contains little to no lactase, and is far more likely to cause food borne illness. I dont suppose controlled scientific studies will persuade you, but for those looking for some https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9262997/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9262997/

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

orwin 2y ago

I won't pronounce myself on raw milk, we used to buy our milk raw and pasteurize it ourselves (the cream was a bonus), but Amish aren't the healthiest people you'll ever met. Maybe the healthiest group of Americans, on average (i mean, 4% obesity rate is low), but Japanese living on islands are far more healthy. In fact, i think generally, people living on small, rich islands are healthier, with good iodine level (which is an issue with the Amish), good vitamin D levels, good diet.