6 ms·

While I agree we should have a greater focus and regulation this kind of “drugs are bad” moralism is a real pain in the ass. Obesity is a complex drug and we sh

While I agree we should have a greater focus and regulation this kind of “drugs are bad” moralism is a real pain in the ass. Obesity is a complex drug and we should have many different approaches to fight it effectively.

robomartin 2y ago
I am NOT making moralist observation at all. Not even close. It's a fact. You do not need to be hooked on a drug for life to control weight. Argue against that, not some imaginary construct just to attack me.
- yosame 2y ago
  Using the term "hooked" to describe using a prescribed drug for a chronic condition is pretty moralistic. Are cystic fibrosis patients hooked on Trikafta? Are people with high blood pressure hooked on ace inhibitors? Or are they taking a medication to control their symptoms and improve their health? Technically you don't need to take a drug to control your weight, and you could do it all naturally (although this is also debatable, given genetics). However, the reality is that most obese people don't have the time, money, circumstance, genetics or willpower to control their weight themselves. Ozempic is a shortcut to better health outcomes in these patients, why shouldn't they take it?
  - robomartin 2y ago
    You are making a false equivalence. You do not need pills to lose weight. Pills used to lose weight do not address root causes. At all. Pills used to lose weight do not address the damage caused by everything that got someone to become obese. The root cause are processed industrialized foods that poison everyone over time. The damage done by these foods to the body permeates the entire body, from the gut to the brain. Pills do not address this at all. Therefore, bad behaviors continue, damage continues to be caused and the person gets sicker and sicker while using a fake solution for weight loss. Period. If you want to argue against the claim that pills are not needed, you have to argue against all known human and animal biology, chemistry and physics. Get a grip. Here's yet another valuable video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN83jppeI7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN83jppeI7Q
- r00fus 2y ago
  Lots of weight loss programs use GLP-1 drugs like ozemipic to help people reduce weight and combine it with a diet and habit change program. I’ve met people who took ozempic for a year and in year 2 are not taking the drug but maintaining weight loss. It’s not unlike taking psychoactives or depression meds with therapy.
- kadoban 2y ago
  > You do not need to be hooked on a drug for life to control weight. Cool. What other intervention shows proven, long-term weight loss? Not "if you actually manage to follow this", not this one ubermench lost a bunch of weight, but _actual_ effects in real people at a group level?
  - robomartin 2y ago
    I won't answer your question because it is ridiculous flame bait. As for "interventionist". My wife is a doctor. Do you know her #1 complaint about patients? Simple: They don't do what they are told. They don't take their meds. They come back a month or two later with the same issues and still refuse to do as they are told. So, yeah, losing weight (that's not her practice) isn't easy. However, losing weight using a pill isn't at all equivalent to being healthy. Not even close. The root causes were not dealt with and the damage cause by what got you there was never repaired. In other words, negative health effects, long term addiction to a fake non-solution and who knows what future consequences. It is absolutely astounding to me to see people actually argue for this shit. Simple thought experiment: If we banned all processed foods (painting with a wide brush here) for six months to a year, almost the entire population would shrink to healthier body composition, get healthier, have less inflammatory disease, need less healthcare and live a better life. The problem is the food.
    - kadoban 2y ago
      > I won't answer your question because it is ridiculous flame bait. You won't answer because you have no desire to help people become healthier. Your goals are different. You just want to feel superior. You made it, and they can't. How dare they cheat by taking a drug that works? That's not fair! > As for "interventionist". My wife is a doctor. Do you know her #1 complaint about patients? Simple: > They don't do what they are told. They don't take their meds. They come back a month or two later with the same issues and still refuse to do as they are told. K. Then they won't take this either I guess, right? Who cares then.
      - robomartin 2y ago

robomartin 2y ago

I am NOT making moralist observation at all. Not even close. It's a fact. You do not need to be hooked on a drug for life to control weight. Argue against that, not some imaginary construct just to attack me.

yosame 2y ago
Using the term "hooked" to describe using a prescribed drug for a chronic condition is pretty moralistic. Are cystic fibrosis patients hooked on Trikafta? Are people with high blood pressure hooked on ace inhibitors? Or are they taking a medication to control their symptoms and improve their health? Technically you don't need to take a drug to control your weight, and you could do it all naturally (although this is also debatable, given genetics). However, the reality is that most obese people don't have the time, money, circumstance, genetics or willpower to control their weight themselves. Ozempic is a shortcut to better health outcomes in these patients, why shouldn't they take it?
- robomartin 2y ago
  You are making a false equivalence. You do not need pills to lose weight. Pills used to lose weight do not address root causes. At all. Pills used to lose weight do not address the damage caused by everything that got someone to become obese. The root cause are processed industrialized foods that poison everyone over time. The damage done by these foods to the body permeates the entire body, from the gut to the brain. Pills do not address this at all. Therefore, bad behaviors continue, damage continues to be caused and the person gets sicker and sicker while using a fake solution for weight loss. Period. If you want to argue against the claim that pills are not needed, you have to argue against all known human and animal biology, chemistry and physics. Get a grip. Here's yet another valuable video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN83jppeI7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN83jppeI7Q
r00fus 2y ago
Lots of weight loss programs use GLP-1 drugs like ozemipic to help people reduce weight and combine it with a diet and habit change program. I’ve met people who took ozempic for a year and in year 2 are not taking the drug but maintaining weight loss. It’s not unlike taking psychoactives or depression meds with therapy.
kadoban 2y ago
> You do not need to be hooked on a drug for life to control weight. Cool. What other intervention shows proven, long-term weight loss? Not "if you actually manage to follow this", not this one ubermench lost a bunch of weight, but _actual_ effects in real people at a group level?
- robomartin 2y ago
  I won't answer your question because it is ridiculous flame bait. As for "interventionist". My wife is a doctor. Do you know her #1 complaint about patients? Simple: They don't do what they are told. They don't take their meds. They come back a month or two later with the same issues and still refuse to do as they are told. So, yeah, losing weight (that's not her practice) isn't easy. However, losing weight using a pill isn't at all equivalent to being healthy. Not even close. The root causes were not dealt with and the damage cause by what got you there was never repaired. In other words, negative health effects, long term addiction to a fake non-solution and who knows what future consequences. It is absolutely astounding to me to see people actually argue for this shit. Simple thought experiment: If we banned all processed foods (painting with a wide brush here) for six months to a year, almost the entire population would shrink to healthier body composition, get healthier, have less inflammatory disease, need less healthcare and live a better life. The problem is the food.
  - kadoban 2y ago
    > I won't answer your question because it is ridiculous flame bait. You won't answer because you have no desire to help people become healthier. Your goals are different. You just want to feel superior. You made it, and they can't. How dare they cheat by taking a drug that works? That's not fair! > As for "interventionist". My wife is a doctor. Do you know her #1 complaint about patients? Simple: > They don't do what they are told. They don't take their meds. They come back a month or two later with the same issues and still refuse to do as they are told. K. Then they won't take this either I guess, right? Who cares then.
    - robomartin 2y ago