5 ms·

$899 mini PC puts Snapdragon X Elite into a mini desktop for developers

61 points by DeathArrow 2y ago

downrightmike 2y ago
Mac mini killer it is not
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Where did they claim it is? It's the only reasonably powerful ARM dev PC that's not an Apple, take it as such. Average Dell and Lenovos are also no MacBook "killers" yet they still sell and see them virtually everywhere. You can make money without "killing" Apple. The market's big enough for several players.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  It's a specialized developer tool, not a consumer product. It's literally named the "Snapdragon Dev Kit for Windows". Nobody thinks it's attempting to compete with the Mac Mini.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    But it still seems to be pretty competitive? Better specs for a significantly lower price $1,200 vs $900.
  - mrbungie 2y ago
    They should totally try to eventually compete with the Mac Mini, even if only via a clear product/vision roadmap. No one is going to develop for a dead platform.
- jeswin 2y ago
  Depends on who it is for; I'd buy it once Linux support improves. A comparable Mac mini is $1000-1500.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    Just the 24GB of memory (which is still less) is almost half the price of the Qualcomm dev kit, as long as the CPU is close enough it seems like a much better deal if you don't need MacOS (Linux support will probably be much better than Asahi when it comes out).
- zamalek 2y ago
  Why not? It is allegedly faster than the m3 with better battery life (but worse thermals). [1] [1]: https://www.macworld.com/article/2313991/qualcomm-snapdragon-x-chips-performance-battery-efficiency-apple-m3.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2313991/qualcomm-snapdragon...
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    Thermal output is where all the watts you pump into the CPU come back out. You can't have more thermal output from less wattage input or vice versa. I believe the multi core performance claim in that the base M3 has 4+4 cores while the X Elite has 12. After that everything falls in line as "a much faster Qualcomm offering than before that's still a bit behind the competition". If it had released 2 CPU generations ago when they started talking about how fast it was it would have been more impressive. I also believe the battery life claim in that if you put the laptop in airplane mode, then the screen all the way down, and run a video on loop it is fully possible it does this longer than Apple depending on how efficient the video decoder and ability to turn the rest off are. When it comes to actually using the laptop it'll be interesting what third party benchmarks say.
    - vsuperpower2020 2y ago
      Nobody is measuring "total thermal output". That would dumb, because like you said that just corresponds 1:1 to battery usage. They're measuring how hot the device gets and how good it is at moving heat away from the critical parts of the device.
hasperdi 2y ago
Will it be able to run Linux?
- userbinator 2y ago
  The answer is "probably yes" unless they've done a ton of work to lock it down, which I wouldn't be surprised was also true.
- j-bos 2y ago
  Yes, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40479941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40479941
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 2y ago
Apple's ARM developer transition kit was a loaner "beta version" of an ARM Mac that you paid $500 for up front. After you returned the hardware, you got a $500 credit that you could apply to any Apple hardware, including the shipping version of the M1 Macs. Qualcomm and Microsoft don't seem as serious about getting as many developers as possible on board for the transition.
- aaronbrethorst 2y ago
  Apple offered a garbage deal to developers who spent $500 to receive an M1 DTK. They only increased the offer to $500 after getting a ton of blowback. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021/02/04/apple_demands_return_of_dtk/ https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021/02/04/apple_demands_ret...
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Thanks for the link, "Apple, to smooth things over, is dangling $200 credit to be used against the purchase of an M1 Mac. Again, this hasn't been well received." "After you returned the hardware, you got a $500 credit that you could apply to any Apple hardware, including the shipping version of the M1 Macs." We live [...] With rewritten histories and a fictional past - Master Race, New Model Army
    - GeekyBear 2y ago
      Microsoft refused to offer warranty repairs for failed XBox 360 units, despite the issue being their own design flaw. There were famously customers who had paid out of pocket for the same repair three or more times. Should we still be claiming that Microsoft never changed their mind and decided to eat the cost of repairs, despite knowing the truth years later? > On February 5, 2021, following developer backlash, Apple sent out another email that increased the discount code to US$500 and expanded the discount to be used on any other Apple devices. In addition, the code expired at the end of 2021, instead of May. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit
danielpetrica 2y ago
I'd love to put linux on that. I'm gonna wait for reviews for it. If I'll see that linux can be installed on that I can see it became my main developer machine.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
walterbell 2y ago
Upstream Linux support for SDXE is making steady progress, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40422286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40422286 https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/qualcomm-goes-where-apple-wont-readies-official-linux-support-for-snapdragon-x-elite https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/qualcomm-goes-wh... > Qualcomm has most of the critical functions working inside.. Linux 6.9.. critical functions include UEFI-based boot support along with all the standard bootloaders like Grub and system-d.. Functions that are being worked on for future iterations of Linux include additions to battery support, on-board display connectivity, external DisplayPort connectivity, sleep and wake-up functions on the GPU, camera support, video support, better CPU frequency support, and speaker/mic/headset enablement. These functions are expected to arrive in Linux 6.10 and 6.11.
vsuperpower2020 2y ago
The main selling point of this is that it has AI support, including microsoft recall specifically under the "Copilot+" branding. I am so ridiculously sick of AI being shoved into everything and microsoft's attempt at ridiculously intrusive spyware was the last straw for me. If I'm going to pay $900 for a computer, I might as well just get a real graphics card anyway.
mike_d 2y ago
I think these will go the way of the Zune and Windows Mobile, but the money and resources Microsoft is throwing at this will benefit the Apple ecosystem so I am happy about it. Yay for better Windows inside a VM on Mac support.
pornel 2y ago
How am I supposed to distribute ARM Windows software? AFAIK Windows doesn't have a concept of fat binaries. Making users manually choose the right download link is ugly and error prone.
- dadoum 2y ago
  They may want you to use appx/appxbundle? But if I recall correctly they come with some limitations (sandboxing, no install scripts).
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Actively supported versions of windows still supports 4 architectures for apps (x86, x86-64, ARM, and ARM64) and long term at least 3 of those (both c86 and ARM64) aren't going away (32 bit as an install target is but not as an app type which you might need depending what your app does) so everything as a fat app isn't a great choice like it is on macOS where there are 2 options and long term there will be just 1. That said you can still achieve something similar. Windows comes with the x86 emulation layer enabled by default on all system types so if your installer is packaged as x86 you can have it contain multiple install packages and select based on the system architecture. This is known as MSIX bundling. Alternatively for online installs the installer can just be the thing that grabs the right version for the machine and launches it. Of course it's more work to create a fat app style bundle so most don't bother. The possibility is still there though.
solarkraft 2y ago
I wonder how this will do as a server.

61 points by DeathArrow 2y ago

downrightmike 2y ago

Mac mini killer it is not

Rinzler89 2y ago
Where did they claim it is? It's the only reasonably powerful ARM dev PC that's not an Apple, take it as such. Average Dell and Lenovos are also no MacBook "killers" yet they still sell and see them virtually everywhere. You can make money without "killing" Apple. The market's big enough for several players.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
It's a specialized developer tool, not a consumer product. It's literally named the "Snapdragon Dev Kit for Windows". Nobody thinks it's attempting to compete with the Mac Mini.
- qwytw 2y ago
  But it still seems to be pretty competitive? Better specs for a significantly lower price $1,200 vs $900.
- mrbungie 2y ago
  They should totally try to eventually compete with the Mac Mini, even if only via a clear product/vision roadmap. No one is going to develop for a dead platform.
jeswin 2y ago
Depends on who it is for; I'd buy it once Linux support improves. A comparable Mac mini is $1000-1500.
- qwytw 2y ago
  Just the 24GB of memory (which is still less) is almost half the price of the Qualcomm dev kit, as long as the CPU is close enough it seems like a much better deal if you don't need MacOS (Linux support will probably be much better than Asahi when it comes out).
zamalek 2y ago
Why not? It is allegedly faster than the m3 with better battery life (but worse thermals). [1] [1]: https://www.macworld.com/article/2313991/qualcomm-snapdragon-x-chips-performance-battery-efficiency-apple-m3.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2313991/qualcomm-snapdragon...
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Thermal output is where all the watts you pump into the CPU come back out. You can't have more thermal output from less wattage input or vice versa. I believe the multi core performance claim in that the base M3 has 4+4 cores while the X Elite has 12. After that everything falls in line as "a much faster Qualcomm offering than before that's still a bit behind the competition". If it had released 2 CPU generations ago when they started talking about how fast it was it would have been more impressive. I also believe the battery life claim in that if you put the laptop in airplane mode, then the screen all the way down, and run a video on loop it is fully possible it does this longer than Apple depending on how efficient the video decoder and ability to turn the rest off are. When it comes to actually using the laptop it'll be interesting what third party benchmarks say.
  - vsuperpower2020 2y ago
    Nobody is measuring "total thermal output". That would dumb, because like you said that just corresponds 1:1 to battery usage. They're measuring how hot the device gets and how good it is at moving heat away from the critical parts of the device.

hasperdi 2y ago

Will it be able to run Linux?

userbinator 2y ago
The answer is "probably yes" unless they've done a ton of work to lock it down, which I wouldn't be surprised was also true.
j-bos 2y ago
Yes, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40479941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40479941

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

GeekyBear 2y ago

Apple's ARM developer transition kit was a loaner "beta version" of an ARM Mac that you paid $500 for up front. After you returned the hardware, you got a $500 credit that you could apply to any Apple hardware, including the shipping version of the M1 Macs. Qualcomm and Microsoft don't seem as serious about getting as many developers as possible on board for the transition.

aaronbrethorst 2y ago
Apple offered a garbage deal to developers who spent $500 to receive an M1 DTK. They only increased the offer to $500 after getting a ton of blowback. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021/02/04/apple_demands_return_of_dtk/ https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021/02/04/apple_demands_ret...
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Thanks for the link, "Apple, to smooth things over, is dangling $200 credit to be used against the purchase of an M1 Mac. Again, this hasn't been well received." "After you returned the hardware, you got a $500 credit that you could apply to any Apple hardware, including the shipping version of the M1 Macs." We live [...] With rewritten histories and a fictional past - Master Race, New Model Army
  - GeekyBear 2y ago
    Microsoft refused to offer warranty repairs for failed XBox 360 units, despite the issue being their own design flaw. There were famously customers who had paid out of pocket for the same repair three or more times. Should we still be claiming that Microsoft never changed their mind and decided to eat the cost of repairs, despite knowing the truth years later? > On February 5, 2021, following developer backlash, Apple sent out another email that increased the discount code to US$500 and expanded the discount to be used on any other Apple devices. In addition, the code expired at the end of 2021, instead of May. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit

danielpetrica 2y ago

I'd love to put linux on that. I'm gonna wait for reviews for it. If I'll see that linux can be installed on that I can see it became my main developer machine.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

walterbell 2y ago

Upstream Linux support for SDXE is making steady progress, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40422286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40422286 https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/qualcomm-goes-where-apple-wont-readies-official-linux-support-for-snapdragon-x-elite https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/qualcomm-goes-wh... > Qualcomm has most of the critical functions working inside.. Linux 6.9.. critical functions include UEFI-based boot support along with all the standard bootloaders like Grub and system-d.. Functions that are being worked on for future iterations of Linux include additions to battery support, on-board display connectivity, external DisplayPort connectivity, sleep and wake-up functions on the GPU, camera support, video support, better CPU frequency support, and speaker/mic/headset enablement. These functions are expected to arrive in Linux 6.10 and 6.11.

vsuperpower2020 2y ago

The main selling point of this is that it has AI support, including microsoft recall specifically under the "Copilot+" branding. I am so ridiculously sick of AI being shoved into everything and microsoft's attempt at ridiculously intrusive spyware was the last straw for me. If I'm going to pay $900 for a computer, I might as well just get a real graphics card anyway.

mike_d 2y ago

I think these will go the way of the Zune and Windows Mobile, but the money and resources Microsoft is throwing at this will benefit the Apple ecosystem so I am happy about it. Yay for better Windows inside a VM on Mac support.

pornel 2y ago

How am I supposed to distribute ARM Windows software? AFAIK Windows doesn't have a concept of fat binaries. Making users manually choose the right download link is ugly and error prone.

dadoum 2y ago
They may want you to use appx/appxbundle? But if I recall correctly they come with some limitations (sandboxing, no install scripts).
zamadatix 2y ago
Actively supported versions of windows still supports 4 architectures for apps (x86, x86-64, ARM, and ARM64) and long term at least 3 of those (both c86 and ARM64) aren't going away (32 bit as an install target is but not as an app type which you might need depending what your app does) so everything as a fat app isn't a great choice like it is on macOS where there are 2 options and long term there will be just 1. That said you can still achieve something similar. Windows comes with the x86 emulation layer enabled by default on all system types so if your installer is packaged as x86 you can have it contain multiple install packages and select based on the system architecture. This is known as MSIX bundling. Alternatively for online installs the installer can just be the thing that grabs the right version for the machine and launches it. Of course it's more work to create a fat app style bundle so most don't bother. The possibility is still there though.

solarkraft 2y ago

I wonder how this will do as a server.