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> later go to a famous actress known for one time playing a chatbot in a movie, and are declined, you are in a much better position But they asked her first!:

> later go to a famous actress known for one time playing a chatbot in a movie, and are declined, you are in a much better position But they asked her first!: "Last September, I received an offer from Sam Altman, who wanted to hire me to voice the current ChatGPT 4.0 system. He told me that he felt that by my voicing the system, I could bridge the gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift concerning humans and Al. He said he felt that my voice would be comforting to people.... https://twitter.com/BobbyAllyn/status/1792679435701014908 https://twitter.com/BobbyAllyn/status/1792679435701014908 So its: ask Johansson, get declined, ask casting directors for the type of voice actors they are interested in, listened to 400 voices, choose one that sounds like the actor, ask Johansson again, get declined again, publish with a reference to Johansson film, claim the voice has nothing todo with Johansson. [EDIT] Actually it looks like they selected the Sky actor before they asked Johansson and claim that she would have been the 6th voice, its still hard to believe they didn't intend it to sound like the voice in her though: https://openai.com/index/how-the-voices-for-chatgpt-were-chosen/ https://openai.com/index/how-the-voices-for-chatgpt-were-cho...

kitd 2y ago
Read the main article again. The voice actor was already auditioned and chosen before they went to Johansson. Maybe they had a change of plan and thought it would be cool to have Johansson's voice rather than an unknown actor's.
- Beldin 2y ago
  The point isn't the time line of hiring the voice actor. The question is whether OpenAI was deliberately trying to make the voice sound like Johansson. Suppose someone asked Dall-e for an image of Black Widow like in the first Avengers movie, promoting their brand. If they then use that in advertising, Johansson's portrait rights would likely be violated. Even (especially) if they never contacted her about doing the ad herself. This is similar to that, but with voice, not portrait.
  - exe34 2y ago
    that's because one can make the argument that dall-e was regurgitating - it would be different if you get somebody who happens to look like her to pose in a similar way.
    - wrsh07 2y ago
      I don't think this is entirely right (not a lawyer) You can't hire an artist to draw black widow in the style of Scarlett Johansson's widow. The issue isn't how the art is made, it's whether the end result looks like her. I think there may be additional issues (to be determined either in courts or by Congress, in the US) with regard to how Dalle makes art, but elsewhere in the thread someone mentioned the Ford Bette middler case, and that does seem to be relevant (also, though, not exactly what happened here) I don't have the expertise to know how similar this is to the case at hand.
- evrydayhustling 2y ago
  Not a lawyer, but wouldn't the important intent be the one when the voice is released, not the first moment someone gets hired? The economic harm happens when you publicize the voice in a way designed to gain value from Johannsen's reputation without her permission, not when you record it. The tweet and requests speak directly to that moment.
  - gitfan86 2y ago
    Yes, if she lost movie roles or other contracts because people assumed they could license the OpenAI voice then she could claim she was harmed. However OpenAI removed the voice and this situation is widely publicized. So it is hard to prove that she is being harmed now
- notjulianjaynes 2y ago
  Is there any quality difference between hiring a voice actor specifically to provide the voice for an AI compared to cloning an actor's voice from their movies? Much of the coverage I've seen thorough social media on this (including Johansson's statement) gives the impression that this is what OpenAI did. If the quality of doing that would be worse than using a voice actor to imitate Johansson's voice, what is the value of the publicity which gives the impression that their technology is more advanced than it is, compared to whatever they end up settling this for?
naasking 2y ago
> So its: ask Johansson, get declined, ask casting directors for the type of voice actors they are interested in, listened to 400 voices, choose one that sounds like the actor Except it doesn't sound like Johansson, I don't know why people keep saying this. At best, the voice has a couple of similar characteristics, but I didn't think for one second that it was her. Can James Earl Jones sue if someone uses a voice actor with a deep voice?
- sanderjd 2y ago
  If they ask James Earl Jones to do it, he says no, and then they hire someone with a deep voice in order to sound like him? Yes.
  - naasking 2y ago
    Except it doesn't sound like her, and that's not even the correct sequence of events.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      It absolutely does sound like her, in this context where she is the voice in the AI voice companion zeitgeist. In just the same way that if the context were "magical space villain in a black mask and cape" and someone was hired with a deep voice, it would be a clear rip-off of James Earl Jones. And it requires a level of credulity that I find impossible to sustain to think that "the sequence of events" here doesn't start with "let's have a voice actor casting call and pick a voice that sounds like the one in the movie about this that everyone loves". I won't, however, be shocked if nobody ever wrote that down in a medium that is subject to legal discovery.
- DoctorOetker 2y ago
  Also looking from the perspective of the lesser known voice actress, does Scarlett Johansson have the right to trample the lesser known voice artists future job opportunities by intimidating her previous employers? Imagine being a potential future employer of the lesser known artist, would you dare hire her in the face that Johansson's lawyers might come after you? Is this lesser known voice artist now doomed to find a job in a different sector? Voice archetypes are much much older than Johansson, so by symmetry arguments, could those earlier in line sue Johansson in turn? When a strong person is offered a job at the docks, but refuses, and if then later another strong person accepts the job, can the first one sue the employer for "finding another strong man"? At some point the courts are being asked to uphold exceptionalist treatment and effectuate it on tax-payers dollars moving executive branches in case of non-compliance.
gwern 2y ago
> it's still hard to believe they didn't intend it to sound like the voice in her though: Especially when you have ex-OAers, who had been working there at the time on 'J.A.R.V.I.S.', tweeting things like https://x.com/karpathy/status/1790373216537502106 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1790373216537502106 "The killer app of LLMs is Scarlett Johansson."

kitd 2y ago

Read the main article again. The voice actor was already auditioned and chosen before they went to Johansson. Maybe they had a change of plan and thought it would be cool to have Johansson's voice rather than an unknown actor's.

Beldin 2y ago
The point isn't the time line of hiring the voice actor. The question is whether OpenAI was deliberately trying to make the voice sound like Johansson. Suppose someone asked Dall-e for an image of Black Widow like in the first Avengers movie, promoting their brand. If they then use that in advertising, Johansson's portrait rights would likely be violated. Even (especially) if they never contacted her about doing the ad herself. This is similar to that, but with voice, not portrait.
- exe34 2y ago
  that's because one can make the argument that dall-e was regurgitating - it would be different if you get somebody who happens to look like her to pose in a similar way.
  - wrsh07 2y ago
    I don't think this is entirely right (not a lawyer) You can't hire an artist to draw black widow in the style of Scarlett Johansson's widow. The issue isn't how the art is made, it's whether the end result looks like her. I think there may be additional issues (to be determined either in courts or by Congress, in the US) with regard to how Dalle makes art, but elsewhere in the thread someone mentioned the Ford Bette middler case, and that does seem to be relevant (also, though, not exactly what happened here) I don't have the expertise to know how similar this is to the case at hand.
evrydayhustling 2y ago
Not a lawyer, but wouldn't the important intent be the one when the voice is released, not the first moment someone gets hired? The economic harm happens when you publicize the voice in a way designed to gain value from Johannsen's reputation without her permission, not when you record it. The tweet and requests speak directly to that moment.
- gitfan86 2y ago
  Yes, if she lost movie roles or other contracts because people assumed they could license the OpenAI voice then she could claim she was harmed. However OpenAI removed the voice and this situation is widely publicized. So it is hard to prove that she is being harmed now
notjulianjaynes 2y ago
Is there any quality difference between hiring a voice actor specifically to provide the voice for an AI compared to cloning an actor's voice from their movies? Much of the coverage I've seen thorough social media on this (including Johansson's statement) gives the impression that this is what OpenAI did. If the quality of doing that would be worse than using a voice actor to imitate Johansson's voice, what is the value of the publicity which gives the impression that their technology is more advanced than it is, compared to whatever they end up settling this for?

naasking 2y ago

> So its: ask Johansson, get declined, ask casting directors for the type of voice actors they are interested in, listened to 400 voices, choose one that sounds like the actor Except it doesn't sound like Johansson, I don't know why people keep saying this. At best, the voice has a couple of similar characteristics, but I didn't think for one second that it was her. Can James Earl Jones sue if someone uses a voice actor with a deep voice?

sanderjd 2y ago
If they ask James Earl Jones to do it, he says no, and then they hire someone with a deep voice in order to sound like him? Yes.
- naasking 2y ago
  Except it doesn't sound like her, and that's not even the correct sequence of events.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    It absolutely does sound like her, in this context where she is the voice in the AI voice companion zeitgeist. In just the same way that if the context were "magical space villain in a black mask and cape" and someone was hired with a deep voice, it would be a clear rip-off of James Earl Jones. And it requires a level of credulity that I find impossible to sustain to think that "the sequence of events" here doesn't start with "let's have a voice actor casting call and pick a voice that sounds like the one in the movie about this that everyone loves". I won't, however, be shocked if nobody ever wrote that down in a medium that is subject to legal discovery.
DoctorOetker 2y ago
Also looking from the perspective of the lesser known voice actress, does Scarlett Johansson have the right to trample the lesser known voice artists future job opportunities by intimidating her previous employers? Imagine being a potential future employer of the lesser known artist, would you dare hire her in the face that Johansson's lawyers might come after you? Is this lesser known voice artist now doomed to find a job in a different sector? Voice archetypes are much much older than Johansson, so by symmetry arguments, could those earlier in line sue Johansson in turn? When a strong person is offered a job at the docks, but refuses, and if then later another strong person accepts the job, can the first one sue the employer for "finding another strong man"? At some point the courts are being asked to uphold exceptionalist treatment and effectuate it on tax-payers dollars moving executive branches in case of non-compliance.

gwern 2y ago

> it's still hard to believe they didn't intend it to sound like the voice in her though: Especially when you have ex-OAers, who had been working there at the time on 'J.A.R.V.I.S.', tweeting things like https://x.com/karpathy/status/1790373216537502106 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1790373216537502106 "The killer app of LLMs is Scarlett Johansson."