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The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

15 points by ColinWright 2y ago

the_real_cher 2y ago
I was hoping this would be addressing the coming collapse of the United States due to 37 trillion dollars of national debt but it's just about climate change.
- vixen99 2y ago
  You are downvoted but it will be interesting to see which calamity (or maybe not) befalls humanity first. I say humanity because the survival of America as a successful trading nation is of immense importance for every one on Earth.
  - orwin 2y ago
    If accountants (because central money debt is an accounting trick) manage to destroy the US I would be way more impressed than mad.
    - the_real_cher 2y ago
      > central money debt is an accounting trick It has to be accounted for at some point. Either via massive inflation on the order of hundreds of percent...or somehow GDP has to rise by hundreds of percent to pay it back. It's a very real problem.
      - orwin 2y ago
        It really doesn't. The 'borrowed' money is already in circulation and causing the inflation right now. The main issue is pension funds and low risk investment accounts that will have trouble finding new derisked investment opportunities.
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  Is there a relationship between the seeming inevitability of societal collapse as a result of climate change, as described in the article, and the seemingly dereliction-of-duty level of undisciplined economic behaviour of the US? Are they saying "fuck it!" because in a short enough period of time whatever calamity the US economic situation causes is going to be massively overshadowed by the climate change calamity? Are the "haves" using essentially free money / debt to create their own personal enclaves to maximise their chances of, at least, short term survival. (Only towards the end of writing that did I feel like I was reviewing the Fallout storyline).
  - the_real_cher 2y ago
    Very good questions. I mean looking at historical temperature records we're at the tail end of an ice age. https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 The INTEREST on the national debt just passed military spending as a percentage of the US budget, mainly borrowed in the form of treasury bonds and government instruments from primarily rich people who are getting paid around 5% to use their money instead of being taxed. Meanwhile the working class just get their money taken via taxes. It's one of the biggest wealth transfers in human history. It's not really reported on though. Of course the people in charge would rather you focus on climate change than this. And the cause of climate change is extremely hard to PROVE however it's easy to scare people with.
hikingsimulator 2y ago
This is a retelling of a discussion between Peter Watts and a friend about climate change. Peter Watts is better known for writing Blindsight, which I consider the best sci-fi novel of the past 20 years. I highly recommend it.
simmerup 2y ago
https://medium.com/@samyoureyes/the-busy-workers-handbook-to-the-apocalypse-7790666afde7 https://medium.com/@samyoureyes/the-busy-workers-handbook-to...
tomtomistaken 2y ago
> technology is not going to save us, real or imaginary. We have to change our behavior. We could use technology to change behavior and I think there is still a lot of room for creative technological solutions. For example, incentivizing climate-friendly behavior and local activism by rewarding people, locals, who reduce CO2/NO2 emissions using satellite measurements and digital currencies.
- dave4420 2y ago
  That’s not a technological solution though: it’s someone throwing money at the problem (to provide “incentives”). It’s a donor-led solution?
  - tomtomistaken 2y ago
    More like a negative tax *or UBI based on satellite technology.
- vixen99 2y ago
  Try that with the billions of folk in what we still call the developing world. 'Rewarding them' sounds a bit patronizing.
  - tomtomistaken 2y ago
    Its a tax, a pretty standard thing to do. I would say that people from southern countries would benefit even more.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      "white colonial powers are yet again telling India / China / Africa / Latin America what do to" is exactly how that has gone over in the past, with things like credits, and how it'll go over with this 'tax'.
      - tomtomistaken 2y ago
jacknews 2y ago
It's good sci-fi.
admissionsguy 2y ago
> encounter with the armed capuchins of the U.S. Border Patrol and eventual banishment from that crumbling empire Sounds like a reasonable person. Someone we should all follow to a bright green future
JohnFen 2y ago
Probably so. Adapting is a superpower that humans have always had.

15 points by ColinWright 2y ago

I was hoping this would be addressing the coming collapse of the United States due to 37 trillion dollars of national debt but it's just about climate change.

vixen99 2y ago
You are downvoted but it will be interesting to see which calamity (or maybe not) befalls humanity first. I say humanity because the survival of America as a successful trading nation is of immense importance for every one on Earth.
- orwin 2y ago
  If accountants (because central money debt is an accounting trick) manage to destroy the US I would be way more impressed than mad.
  - the_real_cher 2y ago
    > central money debt is an accounting trick It has to be accounted for at some point. Either via massive inflation on the order of hundreds of percent...or somehow GDP has to rise by hundreds of percent to pay it back. It's a very real problem.
    - orwin 2y ago
      It really doesn't. The 'borrowed' money is already in circulation and causing the inflation right now. The main issue is pension funds and low risk investment accounts that will have trouble finding new derisked investment opportunities.
BLKNSLVR 2y ago
Is there a relationship between the seeming inevitability of societal collapse as a result of climate change, as described in the article, and the seemingly dereliction-of-duty level of undisciplined economic behaviour of the US? Are they saying "fuck it!" because in a short enough period of time whatever calamity the US economic situation causes is going to be massively overshadowed by the climate change calamity? Are the "haves" using essentially free money / debt to create their own personal enclaves to maximise their chances of, at least, short term survival. (Only towards the end of writing that did I feel like I was reviewing the Fallout storyline).
- the_real_cher 2y ago
  Very good questions. I mean looking at historical temperature records we're at the tail end of an ice age. https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 The INTEREST on the national debt just passed military spending as a percentage of the US budget, mainly borrowed in the form of treasury bonds and government instruments from primarily rich people who are getting paid around 5% to use their money instead of being taxed. Meanwhile the working class just get their money taken via taxes. It's one of the biggest wealth transfers in human history. It's not really reported on though. Of course the people in charge would rather you focus on climate change than this. And the cause of climate change is extremely hard to PROVE however it's easy to scare people with.

hikingsimulator 2y ago

This is a retelling of a discussion between Peter Watts and a friend about climate change. Peter Watts is better known for writing Blindsight, which I consider the best sci-fi novel of the past 20 years. I highly recommend it.

simmerup 2y ago

https://medium.com/@samyoureyes/the-busy-workers-handbook-to-the-apocalypse-7790666afde7 https://medium.com/@samyoureyes/the-busy-workers-handbook-to...

tomtomistaken 2y ago

> technology is not going to save us, real or imaginary. We have to change our behavior. We could use technology to change behavior and I think there is still a lot of room for creative technological solutions. For example, incentivizing climate-friendly behavior and local activism by rewarding people, locals, who reduce CO2/NO2 emissions using satellite measurements and digital currencies.

dave4420 2y ago
That’s not a technological solution though: it’s someone throwing money at the problem (to provide “incentives”). It’s a donor-led solution?
- tomtomistaken 2y ago
  More like a negative tax *or UBI based on satellite technology.
vixen99 2y ago
Try that with the billions of folk in what we still call the developing world. 'Rewarding them' sounds a bit patronizing.
- tomtomistaken 2y ago
  Its a tax, a pretty standard thing to do. I would say that people from southern countries would benefit even more.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    "white colonial powers are yet again telling India / China / Africa / Latin America what do to" is exactly how that has gone over in the past, with things like credits, and how it'll go over with this 'tax'.
    - tomtomistaken 2y ago

jacknews 2y ago

It's good sci-fi.

admissionsguy 2y ago

> encounter with the armed capuchins of the U.S. Border Patrol and eventual banishment from that crumbling empire Sounds like a reasonable person. Someone we should all follow to a bright green future

JohnFen 2y ago

Probably so. Adapting is a superpower that humans have always had.