4 ms·

worth of labor is not the worth of product/service. Amazon picks the places where it can hire extremely cheap labor, because usually they are the only game in

by pas 2y ago

worth of labor is not the worth of product/service. Amazon picks the places where it can hire extremely cheap labor, because usually they are the only game in town. (monopsony market for labor.) it happened without automation and happens with automation too. of course it's on society to help those who are stuck in these unfortunately places.

schmidtleonard 2y ago
> monopsony market for labor Yes, when the inelastic aggregate supply of labor (expressed as an explicit work quota or expressed as an implicit work quota equal to cost of living divided by wages) exceeds the demand for labor, capitalism turns what should be a happy situation (let's all work a bit less!) into a horror show where working hard for scraps is a privilege and rotting in unemployment is the norm.
- parineum 2y ago
  Which system works better?
  - schmidtleonard 2y ago
    We've been here before, shortly after the industrial revolution. Some countries tried communism, some countries tried fascism, and the US tried Roosevelts. The results speak for themselves. Large, meaningful compromises to labor can thread the needle well enough to avoid bloodshed. We need us another Roosevelt.
  - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
    Whatever system they use in Scandinavian countries.
- pas 2y ago
  we are working less. is it due to capitalism? is it just the technological progress fairy? (maybe the fairy is more attracted to the smell of capitalist pigs?) it's not capitalism's fault that people are extremely bad at coordination problems (it's Mr. Moloch's fault obviously, who poisons people's minds with shortsightedness!) it's not capitalism's fault that people choose to block densification of cities, higher taxes, welfare reforms, or that people vote based on their xenophobia.
rootusrootus 2y ago
> Amazon picks the places where it can hire extremely cheap labor, because usually they are the only game in town That only works for some of their locations. They are limited by the need for their distribution centers to be in good proximity to the customers they deliver to. In my area, that means their largest distribution center is in one of the more expensive areas of the city. And the other big one is in a less-nice area that is probably still fairly expensive because it's close to the center of the metro area.
- pas 2y ago
  Sure, but their move into cities was after they already had a brutal margin and the free money press of AWS. And cost pressure always applies. They might put smaller less labor-intensive centers in those places. (Maybe a handover depo for last-mile delivery with some Prime stuff.) Though, of course, maybe the cost of managing non-uniform centers is more than vice versa.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Isn’t that how the market should work? Economically depressed area has people in need of jobs, companies should come in and satisfy that demand, making the place less economically depressed and eventually raising the cost of labor. No point to put an Amazon warehouse in Seattle’s south lake Union neighborhood, for example.
- locococo 2y ago
  it's not how it works if there is a monopoly. E.g amazon is the only employer. I think this is where the local and federal governments should step in. If someone is working for 40 hours and needs foods stamps then the companies should be required to reimburse the government. It's a disgrace for society to take advantage of people like that.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    If Amazon has a monopoly because they are the only ones interested in taking advantage of the surplus labor, then that’s a huge problem, but unless they are somehow locking other companies out, they aren’t the cause of that problem. Are you trying to tell me that Amazon shouldn’t bring those jobs to those areas, and that would somehow be better for the residents? I don’t see any good logic in that, yes, they are taking advantage of an opportunity, but no, those people are worse off if they don’t take advantage. I’d love to see you go to a place like Yazoo Mississippi and tell the residents how lucky they are to not have Amazon there employing them.
    - locococo 2y ago
      The issue is simply companies taking advantage of people. We like to call it the market, but the market only works when there is a balance. I am simply advocating for a balancing force. Government or Unions usually fill this role. I would equally challenge you to go to a warehouse and listen to peoples stories about their working conditions and personal stories.
      - gregw2 2y ago

by pas 2y ago

schmidtleonard 2y ago

> monopsony market for labor Yes, when the inelastic aggregate supply of labor (expressed as an explicit work quota or expressed as an implicit work quota equal to cost of living divided by wages) exceeds the demand for labor, capitalism turns what should be a happy situation (let's all work a bit less!) into a horror show where working hard for scraps is a privilege and rotting in unemployment is the norm.

parineum 2y ago
Which system works better?
- schmidtleonard 2y ago
  We've been here before, shortly after the industrial revolution. Some countries tried communism, some countries tried fascism, and the US tried Roosevelts. The results speak for themselves. Large, meaningful compromises to labor can thread the needle well enough to avoid bloodshed. We need us another Roosevelt.
- GreenWatermelon 2y ago
  Whatever system they use in Scandinavian countries.
pas 2y ago
we are working less. is it due to capitalism? is it just the technological progress fairy? (maybe the fairy is more attracted to the smell of capitalist pigs?) it's not capitalism's fault that people are extremely bad at coordination problems (it's Mr. Moloch's fault obviously, who poisons people's minds with shortsightedness!) it's not capitalism's fault that people choose to block densification of cities, higher taxes, welfare reforms, or that people vote based on their xenophobia.

rootusrootus 2y ago

> Amazon picks the places where it can hire extremely cheap labor, because usually they are the only game in town That only works for some of their locations. They are limited by the need for their distribution centers to be in good proximity to the customers they deliver to. In my area, that means their largest distribution center is in one of the more expensive areas of the city. And the other big one is in a less-nice area that is probably still fairly expensive because it's close to the center of the metro area.

pas 2y ago
Sure, but their move into cities was after they already had a brutal margin and the free money press of AWS. And cost pressure always applies. They might put smaller less labor-intensive centers in those places. (Maybe a handover depo for last-mile delivery with some Prime stuff.) Though, of course, maybe the cost of managing non-uniform centers is more than vice versa.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

Isn’t that how the market should work? Economically depressed area has people in need of jobs, companies should come in and satisfy that demand, making the place less economically depressed and eventually raising the cost of labor. No point to put an Amazon warehouse in Seattle’s south lake Union neighborhood, for example.

locococo 2y ago
it's not how it works if there is a monopoly. E.g amazon is the only employer. I think this is where the local and federal governments should step in. If someone is working for 40 hours and needs foods stamps then the companies should be required to reimburse the government. It's a disgrace for society to take advantage of people like that.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  If Amazon has a monopoly because they are the only ones interested in taking advantage of the surplus labor, then that’s a huge problem, but unless they are somehow locking other companies out, they aren’t the cause of that problem. Are you trying to tell me that Amazon shouldn’t bring those jobs to those areas, and that would somehow be better for the residents? I don’t see any good logic in that, yes, they are taking advantage of an opportunity, but no, those people are worse off if they don’t take advantage. I’d love to see you go to a place like Yazoo Mississippi and tell the residents how lucky they are to not have Amazon there employing them.
  - locococo 2y ago
    The issue is simply companies taking advantage of people. We like to call it the market, but the market only works when there is a balance. I am simply advocating for a balancing force. Government or Unions usually fill this role. I would equally challenge you to go to a warehouse and listen to peoples stories about their working conditions and personal stories.
    - gregw2 2y ago