5 ms·

I thought the entire point of Bluesky was that it was to be decentralized? Did that change?

by TheBlight 2y ago

ziml77 2y ago
That was the idea with Bluesky, but people refuse to budge from Twitter without DMs integrated into the platform.
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  Which applies to WhatsApp, TikTok too. The main issue with other platforms is that the content that exists within are too wild-west. Anime isn't a everybody thing nor are geeky Programming/Linux communities or furry artwork for that matter. Where do I find TikTok content within Matrix? That's what the current content-matter is. The corporate apply heavy exploitation; psychology and social exploits to the user. And while the other platforms don't and carry merits such as privacy and the likes; people really just don't care they are being used for systematic learning, being manipulated because some peer is influencing them. Companies pay large amount of money in R&D for developing social exploits, all the way down to the background colour of the icon of the app. A platform has to have a gimmick to catch. Privacy, decentralized isn't it. These foundations don't have corp money to pay for content producers, influencers and so you then end up with dwellings of niches which can turn urk at best.
ncallaway 2y ago
From using Bluesky it feels like the goal is to build a social media experience that’s as decentralized as possible without sacrificing the user experience. So, they want the experience to be like Twitter for the users that don’t care about decentralization, but to be backed by something like ATProto underneath for those who care. I’d say Mastodon is more “the entire point is that it’s decentralized”. Bluesky it’s a major point, but not the entire point.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  When you're competing against goliath first-moved closed platforms, pragmatic eventual-decentralization makes sense. What use is first delivering today's table stakes features 5 years from now, albeit fully decentralized and open?
  - wmf 2y ago
    Twitter is over ten years old so arguably all its competitors are "late". Bluesky doesn't have 5 years of runway though.
  - ncallaway 2y ago
    Yea, especially when their rational is DMs are the most asked for feature. Build a good enough version now, and then tackle the end to end encrypted fully decentralized version. The cheap version can give them the breathing room to build the better version.
- ramesh31 2y ago
  >Bluesky it’s a major point, but not the entire point. And I'd say that was the right tradeoff to make. Mastodon is only marginally more useful than IRC at this point, and is completely useless to the average person. I as a developer have yet to even figure out how it's supposed to work. And no, I'm not going to spend hours digging through docs.
  - TaylorAlexander 2y ago
    I mean you can just sign up and use it. No need to read docs. I have plenty of complaints, but it’s largely alright imo.
  - Barrin92 2y ago
    >I as a developer have yet to even figure out how it's supposed to work You go to https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/, click on "join" (or pick another server if you are adventurous), fill in your username and email and you're good to go. Why do people invent fictional horror stories about a service that's at this point functionally as easy to use as any bog standard website?
    - ramesh31 2y ago
      >You go to https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/, click on "join" (or pick another server if you are adventurous), fill in your username and email and you're good to go. And that gives me access to the entire service? Or just bits and pieces of it? And how do I find other services? Asking around? Who's seeing my data if I sign up on another server? What are the anonymous operators of said server doing with my password and email? How do I message someone from another server? Are those messages secure at all? Decentralized works for motivated parties. It does not work for the masses.
      - Barrin92 2y ago
        Yes, it gives you access to the entire service, you don't need to find anything. Messages and accounts in Mastodon are visible across the network. The operators of almost all instances aren't anonmyous, the address of the default server operators is literally listed on the about page. If you have zero knowledge and don't care Mastodon functions exactly like Twitter. If you care more, you can invest time, host your own server, do what you want, that's optional. If decentralized systems don't work it's amazing that my grandfather is able to send emails every day. Which is btw the exact equivalent to Mastodon. You don't care you sign up for Gmail, if you do, run a server out of your basement.
summerlight 2y ago
Decentralization is a solution for establishing a saner, fail-safe governance structure (or we can call it "billionaire-proof"), not the problem to be solved by itself. You need to have enough traction to achieve this goal and sometime it might make sense to compromise the decentralized implementation part.
jasonlotito 2y ago
Yes. No.

I thought the entire point of Bluesky was that it was to be decentralized? Did that change?

ziml77 2y ago

That was the idea with Bluesky, but people refuse to budge from Twitter without DMs integrated into the platform.

doublerabbit 2y ago
Which applies to WhatsApp, TikTok too. The main issue with other platforms is that the content that exists within are too wild-west. Anime isn't a everybody thing nor are geeky Programming/Linux communities or furry artwork for that matter. Where do I find TikTok content within Matrix? That's what the current content-matter is. The corporate apply heavy exploitation; psychology and social exploits to the user. And while the other platforms don't and carry merits such as privacy and the likes; people really just don't care they are being used for systematic learning, being manipulated because some peer is influencing them. Companies pay large amount of money in R&D for developing social exploits, all the way down to the background colour of the icon of the app. A platform has to have a gimmick to catch. Privacy, decentralized isn't it. These foundations don't have corp money to pay for content producers, influencers and so you then end up with dwellings of niches which can turn urk at best.

ncallaway 2y ago

From using Bluesky it feels like the goal is to build a social media experience that’s as decentralized as possible without sacrificing the user experience. So, they want the experience to be like Twitter for the users that don’t care about decentralization, but to be backed by something like ATProto underneath for those who care. I’d say Mastodon is more “the entire point is that it’s decentralized”. Bluesky it’s a major point, but not the entire point.

ethbr1 2y ago
When you're competing against goliath first-moved closed platforms, pragmatic eventual-decentralization makes sense. What use is first delivering today's table stakes features 5 years from now, albeit fully decentralized and open?
- wmf 2y ago
  Twitter is over ten years old so arguably all its competitors are "late". Bluesky doesn't have 5 years of runway though.
- ncallaway 2y ago
  Yea, especially when their rational is DMs are the most asked for feature. Build a good enough version now, and then tackle the end to end encrypted fully decentralized version. The cheap version can give them the breathing room to build the better version.
ramesh31 2y ago
>Bluesky it’s a major point, but not the entire point. And I'd say that was the right tradeoff to make. Mastodon is only marginally more useful than IRC at this point, and is completely useless to the average person. I as a developer have yet to even figure out how it's supposed to work. And no, I'm not going to spend hours digging through docs.
- TaylorAlexander 2y ago
  I mean you can just sign up and use it. No need to read docs. I have plenty of complaints, but it’s largely alright imo.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  >I as a developer have yet to even figure out how it's supposed to work You go to https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/, click on "join" (or pick another server if you are adventurous), fill in your username and email and you're good to go. Why do people invent fictional horror stories about a service that's at this point functionally as easy to use as any bog standard website?
  - ramesh31 2y ago
    >You go to https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/, click on "join" (or pick another server if you are adventurous), fill in your username and email and you're good to go. And that gives me access to the entire service? Or just bits and pieces of it? And how do I find other services? Asking around? Who's seeing my data if I sign up on another server? What are the anonymous operators of said server doing with my password and email? How do I message someone from another server? Are those messages secure at all? Decentralized works for motivated parties. It does not work for the masses.
    - Barrin92 2y ago
      Yes, it gives you access to the entire service, you don't need to find anything. Messages and accounts in Mastodon are visible across the network. The operators of almost all instances aren't anonmyous, the address of the default server operators is literally listed on the about page. If you have zero knowledge and don't care Mastodon functions exactly like Twitter. If you care more, you can invest time, host your own server, do what you want, that's optional. If decentralized systems don't work it's amazing that my grandfather is able to send emails every day. Which is btw the exact equivalent to Mastodon. You don't care you sign up for Gmail, if you do, run a server out of your basement.

summerlight 2y ago

Decentralization is a solution for establishing a saner, fail-safe governance structure (or we can call it "billionaire-proof"), not the problem to be solved by itself. You need to have enough traction to achieve this goal and sometime it might make sense to compromise the decentralized implementation part.

jasonlotito 2y ago

Yes. No.