6 ms·

Every single airline says this for the last 15 years at least. On some routes you see lots of loose seatbelts (Middle East, Africa). On European flights, every

by arnon 2y ago

Every single airline says this for the last 15 years at least. On some routes you see lots of loose seatbelts (Middle East, Africa). On European flights, everyone has the seatbelt on for the entire flight.

vsnf 2y ago
This behavior is reflected in car attitudes too. Many Japanese drive with a detached seatbelt. Not even the presence of children changes this calculus.
- banish-m4 2y ago
  Wat? That seems out of character. Class related?
  - RestlessMind 2y ago
    Actually that seems very Japanese in a weird way - they might be trusting themselves and everyone else to follow rules precisely, thus avoiding all the accidents and obviating the need for seatbelts.
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      Is driving actually kind of easy in Japan for this reason? I’ve never had a car while there. It’s wild how different Japan and China are despite being neighbors. I can’t think of a European neighbor pair that is so different.
      - RestlessMind 2y ago
        When I visited, Austria-Hungary were very different. So were Germany-Poland. And let's not even talk about Finland-Russia. I mean, Europe had an iron curtain for decades and that shows at the boundaries.
      - et-al 2y ago
        One is an island nation that's been fairly open, the other had waves of isolationism, famines, and only recently opened up their markets in the late 80s. Private car ownership was not on the table until probably 25 years ago. But to play your game, Switzerland and Italy, especially southern Italy, are very different.
        mayd 2y ago
        Your counterexample is not even close to being accurate. Italy and Switzerland have much more in common than China and Japan. Italian is even one of the official languages of Switzerland. Switzerland and Italy are both essentially federations of distinct provinces. Both are recognizably Western European. China and Japan are worlds apart, as are China and India.
        et-al 2y ago
        My main point was that there's plenty of reasons for China and Japan to be different, especially when it comes to driving norms. Are you surprised as the other poster was about these differences between China and Japan? And going back to the original intent: would you say driving in Zurich and driving in Naples are two distinct experiences?
      - throwaway2037 2y ago
        I can: Germany and (European) Russia. They are about the same distance as Tokyo to Shanghai. They have wildly different driving cultures! Also, China is the size of a continent. Did you drive in all the different regions? I doubt it. Do what region are you extrapolating from?
    - banish-m4 2y ago
      Ahh.. a bit too trusting to the point of individual risk in a high trust society.
- yurishimo 2y ago
  Most Dutch people don’t wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. As e-bikes are becoming more popular, some older people are opting to wear a helmet since the speed is higher, but many still don’t. It’s not uncommon to see a parent riding around with a kid attached to the bike and neither are wearing a helmet. I think it is kind of a cultural thing as well as convenience. If you ride a bike to the station to catch a train, then you might need storage or to carry it with you.
  - 0x5f3759df-i 2y ago
    This really isn’t a similar comparison, Dutch infrastructure is built to prioritize making cycling safe at every decision point. Whereas you’d be someone with a death wish to be riding without a helmet in most places in the US.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Also it's just not really a big danger. There's no epidemic of brain injury due to this. Part of the reason is that because bike usage is so common and the infrastructure is very separate (bike lanes everywhere, no mixed traffic on eg roundabouts), and bikes almost always have right of way and are not to blame in an accident, that drivers are very aware of them. I noticed in countries like Ireland with much less bikes that bike lanes sometimes just end in the middle of a high speed roundabout. And most drivers there have no clue which is in part because until 10 years ago you could just buy a driver's license at the post office. It was a "learner's permit" but it was normal practice to just go and drive. So yeah in Ireland I wouldn't even ride a bike with a helmet. In Holland I'm much safer even without one.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      I don't remember the "Not Just Bikes" YouTube video, but he specifically discusses the relatively low rates of bicycle helmet wearing, especially amoungst urban riders. I agree with you: When there are serious bike injuries, it is usually due to a car or truck in mixed space. When only bikes riding less than 25km/h, the injuries are pretty minor.
  - 2y ago
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  This is an asia thing, not a Japan thing. Saw this in most of South East Asia.
ghaff 2y ago
Loose seatbelts are probably fine. That’s what I do. Presumably that keeps me from getting launched into the ceiling. A lap belt is a compromise anyway. Aircraft crew use more as do car drivers for that matter.
- scoofy 2y ago
  Right but what's the point? If the belt is on very loose, you give your body a chance to gain momentum, which will be redirected when the seat belt catches you, which would lead to serious injury. The belt doesn't need to be on tight, but it should be relatively snug. It's just one of those things that is trivial to do, with a very, very low probability to save you from injury, but costs nothing, so why not...
  - rkangel 2y ago
    I'd rather redirect my momentum into soft webbing spread across my lap, than into my head impacting an overhead bin.
  - Andrews54757 2y ago
    You won't gain additional momentum from a loose belt. But a loose belt may give your body the chance to slip out. The impulse you feel from a tight belt will be no less than the impulse you feel from a loose one.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      >The impulse you feel from a tight belt will be no less than the impulse you feel from a loose one. I don't see any interpretation of that that makes it true.
      - alan-hn 2y ago
        Impulse is constant, its the force that is transferred to your body. This is constant whether or not a belt is worn. A belt simply takes that force and redistributes it into the seat frame, if the belt is not worn the force is not redistributed by the belt but rather by your head into the overhead bin

by arnon 2y ago

vsnf 2y ago

This behavior is reflected in car attitudes too. Many Japanese drive with a detached seatbelt. Not even the presence of children changes this calculus.

banish-m4 2y ago
Wat? That seems out of character. Class related?
- RestlessMind 2y ago
  Actually that seems very Japanese in a weird way - they might be trusting themselves and everyone else to follow rules precisely, thus avoiding all the accidents and obviating the need for seatbelts.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    Is driving actually kind of easy in Japan for this reason? I’ve never had a car while there. It’s wild how different Japan and China are despite being neighbors. I can’t think of a European neighbor pair that is so different.
    - RestlessMind 2y ago
      When I visited, Austria-Hungary were very different. So were Germany-Poland. And let's not even talk about Finland-Russia. I mean, Europe had an iron curtain for decades and that shows at the boundaries.
    - et-al 2y ago
      One is an island nation that's been fairly open, the other had waves of isolationism, famines, and only recently opened up their markets in the late 80s. Private car ownership was not on the table until probably 25 years ago. But to play your game, Switzerland and Italy, especially southern Italy, are very different.
      - mayd 2y ago
        Your counterexample is not even close to being accurate. Italy and Switzerland have much more in common than China and Japan. Italian is even one of the official languages of Switzerland. Switzerland and Italy are both essentially federations of distinct provinces. Both are recognizably Western European. China and Japan are worlds apart, as are China and India.
        et-al 2y ago
        My main point was that there's plenty of reasons for China and Japan to be different, especially when it comes to driving norms. Are you surprised as the other poster was about these differences between China and Japan? And going back to the original intent: would you say driving in Zurich and driving in Naples are two distinct experiences?
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      I can: Germany and (European) Russia. They are about the same distance as Tokyo to Shanghai. They have wildly different driving cultures! Also, China is the size of a continent. Did you drive in all the different regions? I doubt it. Do what region are you extrapolating from?
  - banish-m4 2y ago
    Ahh.. a bit too trusting to the point of individual risk in a high trust society.
yurishimo 2y ago
Most Dutch people don’t wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. As e-bikes are becoming more popular, some older people are opting to wear a helmet since the speed is higher, but many still don’t. It’s not uncommon to see a parent riding around with a kid attached to the bike and neither are wearing a helmet. I think it is kind of a cultural thing as well as convenience. If you ride a bike to the station to catch a train, then you might need storage or to carry it with you.
- 0x5f3759df-i 2y ago
  This really isn’t a similar comparison, Dutch infrastructure is built to prioritize making cycling safe at every decision point. Whereas you’d be someone with a death wish to be riding without a helmet in most places in the US.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Also it's just not really a big danger. There's no epidemic of brain injury due to this. Part of the reason is that because bike usage is so common and the infrastructure is very separate (bike lanes everywhere, no mixed traffic on eg roundabouts), and bikes almost always have right of way and are not to blame in an accident, that drivers are very aware of them. I noticed in countries like Ireland with much less bikes that bike lanes sometimes just end in the middle of a high speed roundabout. And most drivers there have no clue which is in part because until 10 years ago you could just buy a driver's license at the post office. It was a "learner's permit" but it was normal practice to just go and drive. So yeah in Ireland I wouldn't even ride a bike with a helmet. In Holland I'm much safer even without one.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    I don't remember the "Not Just Bikes" YouTube video, but he specifically discusses the relatively low rates of bicycle helmet wearing, especially amoungst urban riders. I agree with you: When there are serious bike injuries, it is usually due to a car or truck in mixed space. When only bikes riding less than 25km/h, the injuries are pretty minor.
- 2y ago
Der_Einzige 2y ago
This is an asia thing, not a Japan thing. Saw this in most of South East Asia.

ghaff 2y ago

Loose seatbelts are probably fine. That’s what I do. Presumably that keeps me from getting launched into the ceiling. A lap belt is a compromise anyway. Aircraft crew use more as do car drivers for that matter.

scoofy 2y ago
Right but what's the point? If the belt is on very loose, you give your body a chance to gain momentum, which will be redirected when the seat belt catches you, which would lead to serious injury. The belt doesn't need to be on tight, but it should be relatively snug. It's just one of those things that is trivial to do, with a very, very low probability to save you from injury, but costs nothing, so why not...
- rkangel 2y ago
  I'd rather redirect my momentum into soft webbing spread across my lap, than into my head impacting an overhead bin.
- Andrews54757 2y ago
  You won't gain additional momentum from a loose belt. But a loose belt may give your body the chance to slip out. The impulse you feel from a tight belt will be no less than the impulse you feel from a loose one.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    >The impulse you feel from a tight belt will be no less than the impulse you feel from a loose one. I don't see any interpretation of that that makes it true.
    - alan-hn 2y ago
      Impulse is constant, its the force that is transferred to your body. This is constant whether or not a belt is worn. A belt simply takes that force and redistributes it into the seat frame, if the belt is not worn the force is not redistributed by the belt but rather by your head into the overhead bin