6 ms·

Parents who are saying no to "extracurriculars"

45 points by jseliger 2y ago

spicyusername 2y ago
Just do the things you or your kids want to do and not the things that you or your kids don't want to do, doesn't seem that hard in this case... Nobody's twisting your arm, forcing you to spend more time than you want to at these activities other than your feeling of obligation to your children... Don't complain, just don't go..
- beart 2y ago
  The issue with this mentality is it ultimately leads to doing nothing at all. It's incredibly easy to look at an obligation and turn it down, even if it will benefit you and your family. My kids would love to do nothing but play video games all day long. Honestly, so would I. But I coach them in sports because it gets me involved, gets me out of the house, and teaches them a ton of valuable lessons. Lessons I wish I had learned.
  - avmich 2y ago
    > The issue with this mentality is it ultimately leads to doing nothing at all. Not necessarily - but too often to be important. Surely kids left alone would do wonderful things by themselves... if they figure out what are those wonderful things they'd like to do. Most often they don't know. Have no idea what are those wonderful activities, which they like, and which they can participate, or solo, in, and how to organize whatever is needed. Now it's the ball in our court - and we don't have a good solution for how to present those opportunities to kids, so that they'd not just sit and figure nothing interesting to do, and get distracted with more passive things, like TVs or videogames, but something which strikes a better balance between enjoyment and benefits in learning. It's interesting that the problem is literally ages old - yet we as civilization still have rather crude solutions for what to offer our kids so they'd grow involved and benefiting from learning opportunities. Seems like a good topic for a targeted efforts for a company or a non-profit, if government is moving too slow.
  - spicyusername 2y ago
    Then it sounds like that's an obligation you do want to do, and will go to. But later, if you change your mind... then don't go.
    - beart 2y ago
      I changed my kids diapers, if I didn't they would smell and get a rash. Having a good reason to do something isn't the same thing as wanting to do it for purely pleasurable reasons. But that's the whole point isn't it? Approaching things as, "if you don't want to do it, then don't" can lead to a whole lot of bad outcomes.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  My daughter hated, HATED, gymnastics for a period when she was younger. She would kick and scream on the ground when we took her. Part of it was that the coaches were old-school, Eastern European gymnasts. Part of it was the timing -- right after school when she probably wanted to nap. Wife and I debated long and hard whether we should just let her quit but decided to keep her in it because she showed some talent for it. It wasn't easy because we effectively "forced" her to do gymnastics even as she would kick and scream and cry on some days just getting into the car. Some days I'd complain to my wife why we bother with this because she clearly doesn't want to do it. This past weekend? She placed first all-around in her division at a regional competition. We got her an adjustable dumbbell set this past Christmas and she trains every night on her own volition. She hates missing gymnastics now because that's her happy place now. I'd say it's part of her identity now. I think sometimes, kids don't want to do things because they aren't good at it. But they can't become proficient at anything without a lot of practice and training be that an instrument or a sport. And with that proficiency comes enjoyment and engagement. It's not so black and white as you propose; sometimes there's a judgement call to be made to start the ramp of proficiency that feeds into enjoyment and achievement.
  - mdorazio 2y ago
    The trouble with this is that you don't have any data for the alternative case, so you can't say if forcing her to do gymnastics was actually a good move. Maybe she would have loved piano even more and been performing at concerts now. Maybe she would have loved soccer and been on a path to the Olympics. Personally, I think forcing kids to do an activity after they've tried it a few times and decided they hate it is generally a bad tactic. I'm a fan of giving kids options - they have to do something that gets them out of the house and off their phone / iPad, but not necessarily the thing I personally think they should do.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      I don't think we would have kept going if she didn't show some ability. But because she showed some ability (balance, flexibility), we pushed it a bit more and it worked out for us.
IshKebab 2y ago
The parents who have decided not to do the completely optional thing they hate doing.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  It's my understanding that extracurriculars are heavily considered in the college applications process.
  - beart 2y ago
    The social aspects of these things also cannot be underestimated. For both the kids and the parents. Many friends are made and networks expanded through school sports.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    In, like, the top few percent of schools that only a small proportion of college-bound students are even considering.
elevatedastalt 2y ago
Competition is harder, kids are getting a head-start in every activity of life. What would have been an impressive final-year project when I was in university is something high schoolers are churning out as a bare minimum. How do we ready our kids (who are competitive) for this if not by ensuring that they don't miss out any opprtunities? Note that this is specifically for kids who do show promise.
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
  To quote from a post I made in a previous thread: I'm increasingly of the opinion that the winning move is not to play. The educational Red Queen Race that S.Korea and China have been famous for -- with childhoods utterly dominated by schooling and "extracurriculars" -- is now also an American thing. It's hard on kids, hard on parents, and the real educational benefit is less than zero. (In that kids would genuinely be better off without excess schooling and with more self-directed free time.) The Ivy League path is simultaneously ultra-high-stress and ultra-conventional. It's no longer a golden ticket to the good life. Unless you like grinding and competition, and want a career which features both, I feel it's usually just the opposite. So it makes sense to "say no," as those in OP do. Truly, kids aren't getting a "head-start" these days -- they're engaging in ever more complex and Byzantine make-work. And, emphatically, I do not believe it has any impact on their intellectual achievements later in life.
  - elevatedastalt 2y ago
    It's a coordination problem (prisoners dilemma). It's a winning move only if no one plays (aka everyone hits cooperates). If you are the only one who defects you will be worse off.
    - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
      Maybe. That is, if and only if you want a conventional life path or need a particular University-conferred credential for your choice of profession. Otherwise, there's no pain associated with defecting. If anything, there's far less pain associated with defecting than with the alternative, weighted down with drudgery as it is.
taeric 2y ago
This seems silly. Parents that had the resources to shuttle kids to competitions have long been a thing. Yes, it was and is essentially an arms race, but opting out of it just means you are opting out of the race. Good luck with that, if it is in the direction you want your kids aimed. I'm sympathetic to the idea that depression and anxiety are real. I'm not entirely convinced opting out will accomplish much. This is like thinking if you opt out of eating, you will avoid food health related issues. Seems much more likely that everyone will have a different relationship with these things and finding what is healthy for you will be difficult. And lumping this in as somehow being as bad as phone related distractions is... dubious.
ryandrake 2y ago
> The challenge is this approach flies in the face of so many of the messages parents are getting about admissions to selective colleges. At a recent event hosted by her 17-year-old daughter’s high school, “the college counselor was talking about kids’ essays, saying that teens should tie their passions and interests to what they want to major in,” she says. “To be pre-med, these teens are expected to already have volunteered in a hospital or a lab. This is the root cause of the madness. Colleges insist on weighing these activities heavily in admissions decisions, so parents have no choice but to force their kids to jump through the hoops. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma problem: If parents all at once decided cooperatively that enough was enough, it would end. But any single parent who chooses "defect" and pushes their kid towards "activities" will be rewarded with an edge in admissions, so everyone else must choose "defect" and we're all worse-off because of it. Colleges need to get their heads out of their asses. Is my kid really going to be a better student because she volunteered at a hospital or played high school softball?
- ravenstine 2y ago
  > Is my kid really going to be a better student because she volunteered at a hospital or played high school softball? Not if it's a mere exercise in box-ticking.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    How do college admissions departments figure out who is box-ticking, to know whether the person they are looking at is a better student?
    - fargle 2y ago
      of course they don't. but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do extra-curriculars to benefit yourself or your kids, just because other people are dishonest.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Open question how much they care, I’d say. Willingness and ability to optimize ladder-climbing game-playing might be just fine by them.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bena 2y ago
The problem is everything is an arms race. You want little Johnny to do well. To get in good schools, to get a good job, to get all the good things you may not have had. And at first, you just had to meet some qualifications, and that was good enough. But then, Becky did all of that, and was in band. So band becomes a differentiator. So now, you have to do all the good AND be in band. Then Tommy also does all of that, band, and wrestling. Then Jack does wrestling, but travels to various competitions in addition to school wrestling. And every step is just trying to distinguish yourself from everyone else doing the same. Because, all other things are roughly equal. It's why we have people graduating with greater than 4.0 GPAs. Because, after a while, straight As wasn't enough. You needed extra As.
whimsicalism 2y ago
Traditional American elites are feeling increasingly insecure about their position as they face stronger and stronger academic/meritocratic competition every single year, giving rise to articles like these. Traditional elites have been outcompeted out of the top unis for at least two decades now and the competition is increasingly coming for their stronghold schools like NYU and USC. It is no longer enough to be a relatively bright child of rich parents and that is causing a lot of anxiety.
jld 2y ago
I kinda feel like this is a result of suburban car-centric living too. If every 45 minute practice comes with another 45 minutes of commuting time it eats up all of everyone's time, attention and downtime. I'm happy to let my kids do the activities they want to do, as long as it's within 5-10 minutes
ohelabs 2y ago
Love how all the initial comments on this are about how these parents are going to massively influence their children’s future by not _making_ them do multiple “extracurriculars”… TBH YOU ARE THE PROBLEM-> gamification of their life is what is causing all of this strife. Not everyone needs to be a 10X-er (to use a HN favorite term) honestly I would much rather work with 2x-5x engineers that went to a regular school than the unfortunate ones who have had their whole lives gamified for some social credit game played by their parents. Im not saying that there isn’t value in Ivy League but the games being played to get people in and this idea that it will == successful life is at best a marketing strategy…
stainablesteel 2y ago
its also worth noting unsupervised play as a mode of personal growth for kids every team has a coach and is being told what to do, none of the kids are figuring it out for themselves, and they're always being watched
kingrazor 2y ago
I have a hard time relating to this. My mom never had any pressure to do have me do any extracurriculars, and I didn't really do any. It was enough to just pass my classes and graduate. My local community college certainly didn't care.
carabiner 2y ago
Go to an undervalued school like Western Washington University which has a 90% acceptance rate and regularly sends CS grads to Google and the like. Someone could probably automate creating a list of such schools by scraping LinkedIn profiles, class size data (to know what % of each class goes to a top company) and cross referencing with each school's acceptance rate.
throwaway22032 2y ago
At least in the UK I think that the idea that University is the be all and end all is well past its peak. I know people in their 30s with degrees who are in house shares in the capital earning 30K a year. They are doing substantially worse than the folks I know in cheaper areas doing stuff like construction, sales, home renovations etc and I don't think that most of them are likely to catch up any time soon. I think graduating at Oxford, Cambridge, LSE and a few others is worth it. Otherwise you're probably better off living at home for as long as possible, saving a bunch of money and striking out on your own.
pessimizer 2y ago
If you're born wealthy, it's easy to die wealthy (unless you both have access to, and are stupid enough to actively destroy, your wealth.) If you're born poor, it's easy to die poor. The middle class is the only group that has to reproduce itself every generation. The middle class is shrinking due to technology, immigration, foreign competition, dogshit labor laws, and simple scaling (just because you had three kids doesn't meant that it will now take 1.5 kids to do your abstract job.) It leads to desperation and superstitious behavior; people trying to exactly repeat things that they've seen and experienced, consulting trendy oracles and gurus, and rationally trying to maximize the number of things that they try in the hope that one or more will save their children from a lifetime of gigwork. If you don't push your kids like that, and they end up successful, others will just say you were lucky. If they end up failures, they'll say you failed them.
adolph 2y ago
Slate has the mobile back-button-takeover cancer as if they are the only site to which one would navigate. It’s like we all got launched out of a catapult, as the activity/sports industrial complex roared back into life, sweeping away game nights and family grocery shopping in its inexorable gears. It’s like the author has zero agency and projects their own outlook onto everyone.
steveBK123 2y ago
It's funny because colleges will spout things about equity and helping the disadvantaged but the emphasis on esoteric extracurriculars is defacto classism. I grew up in a small nowhere town and played JV & rec league sports (basically free) while working a part time job from when I was like 15. So my extracurriculars don't really count, and were cash flow positive. These days being in NYC, my friends kids are adopting expensive signaling hobbies, going to Oxford & Princeton pre-college summer prep programs, using parents connections to get high school unpaid internships, and all sorts of other time & money intensive endeavors that could easily cost $50K by the time the kid is applying to college.
nathants 2y ago
imagine teaching kids to play this game instead of teaching them to self study with gpt4, kagi, and all the other tools revolutionizing information access. when your brain is tired, go outside and make your body tired too. with all the time saved, we can take a long drive to some distant activity. why not, it will probably be fun! otherwise, just try something else next time. no pressure, no drama. just play and growth.

45 points by jseliger 2y ago

Just do the things you or your kids want to do and not the things that you or your kids don't want to do, doesn't seem that hard in this case... Nobody's twisting your arm, forcing you to spend more time than you want to at these activities other than your feeling of obligation to your children... Don't complain, just don't go..

beart 2y ago
The issue with this mentality is it ultimately leads to doing nothing at all. It's incredibly easy to look at an obligation and turn it down, even if it will benefit you and your family. My kids would love to do nothing but play video games all day long. Honestly, so would I. But I coach them in sports because it gets me involved, gets me out of the house, and teaches them a ton of valuable lessons. Lessons I wish I had learned.
- avmich 2y ago
  > The issue with this mentality is it ultimately leads to doing nothing at all. Not necessarily - but too often to be important. Surely kids left alone would do wonderful things by themselves... if they figure out what are those wonderful things they'd like to do. Most often they don't know. Have no idea what are those wonderful activities, which they like, and which they can participate, or solo, in, and how to organize whatever is needed. Now it's the ball in our court - and we don't have a good solution for how to present those opportunities to kids, so that they'd not just sit and figure nothing interesting to do, and get distracted with more passive things, like TVs or videogames, but something which strikes a better balance between enjoyment and benefits in learning. It's interesting that the problem is literally ages old - yet we as civilization still have rather crude solutions for what to offer our kids so they'd grow involved and benefiting from learning opportunities. Seems like a good topic for a targeted efforts for a company or a non-profit, if government is moving too slow.
- spicyusername 2y ago
  Then it sounds like that's an obligation you do want to do, and will go to. But later, if you change your mind... then don't go.
  - beart 2y ago
    I changed my kids diapers, if I didn't they would smell and get a rash. Having a good reason to do something isn't the same thing as wanting to do it for purely pleasurable reasons. But that's the whole point isn't it? Approaching things as, "if you don't want to do it, then don't" can lead to a whole lot of bad outcomes.
CharlieDigital 2y ago
My daughter hated, HATED, gymnastics for a period when she was younger. She would kick and scream on the ground when we took her. Part of it was that the coaches were old-school, Eastern European gymnasts. Part of it was the timing -- right after school when she probably wanted to nap. Wife and I debated long and hard whether we should just let her quit but decided to keep her in it because she showed some talent for it. It wasn't easy because we effectively "forced" her to do gymnastics even as she would kick and scream and cry on some days just getting into the car. Some days I'd complain to my wife why we bother with this because she clearly doesn't want to do it. This past weekend? She placed first all-around in her division at a regional competition. We got her an adjustable dumbbell set this past Christmas and she trains every night on her own volition. She hates missing gymnastics now because that's her happy place now. I'd say it's part of her identity now. I think sometimes, kids don't want to do things because they aren't good at it. But they can't become proficient at anything without a lot of practice and training be that an instrument or a sport. And with that proficiency comes enjoyment and engagement. It's not so black and white as you propose; sometimes there's a judgement call to be made to start the ramp of proficiency that feeds into enjoyment and achievement.
- mdorazio 2y ago
  The trouble with this is that you don't have any data for the alternative case, so you can't say if forcing her to do gymnastics was actually a good move. Maybe she would have loved piano even more and been performing at concerts now. Maybe she would have loved soccer and been on a path to the Olympics. Personally, I think forcing kids to do an activity after they've tried it a few times and decided they hate it is generally a bad tactic. I'm a fan of giving kids options - they have to do something that gets them out of the house and off their phone / iPad, but not necessarily the thing I personally think they should do.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    I don't think we would have kept going if she didn't show some ability. But because she showed some ability (balance, flexibility), we pushed it a bit more and it worked out for us.

IshKebab 2y ago

The parents who have decided not to do the completely optional thing they hate doing.

ceejayoz 2y ago
It's my understanding that extracurriculars are heavily considered in the college applications process.
- beart 2y ago
  The social aspects of these things also cannot be underestimated. For both the kids and the parents. Many friends are made and networks expanded through school sports.
- vundercind 2y ago
  In, like, the top few percent of schools that only a small proportion of college-bound students are even considering.

elevatedastalt 2y ago

Competition is harder, kids are getting a head-start in every activity of life. What would have been an impressive final-year project when I was in university is something high schoolers are churning out as a bare minimum. How do we ready our kids (who are competitive) for this if not by ensuring that they don't miss out any opprtunities? Note that this is specifically for kids who do show promise.

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
To quote from a post I made in a previous thread: I'm increasingly of the opinion that the winning move is not to play. The educational Red Queen Race that S.Korea and China have been famous for -- with childhoods utterly dominated by schooling and "extracurriculars" -- is now also an American thing. It's hard on kids, hard on parents, and the real educational benefit is less than zero. (In that kids would genuinely be better off without excess schooling and with more self-directed free time.) The Ivy League path is simultaneously ultra-high-stress and ultra-conventional. It's no longer a golden ticket to the good life. Unless you like grinding and competition, and want a career which features both, I feel it's usually just the opposite. So it makes sense to "say no," as those in OP do. Truly, kids aren't getting a "head-start" these days -- they're engaging in ever more complex and Byzantine make-work. And, emphatically, I do not believe it has any impact on their intellectual achievements later in life.
- elevatedastalt 2y ago
  It's a coordination problem (prisoners dilemma). It's a winning move only if no one plays (aka everyone hits cooperates). If you are the only one who defects you will be worse off.
  - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
    Maybe. That is, if and only if you want a conventional life path or need a particular University-conferred credential for your choice of profession. Otherwise, there's no pain associated with defecting. If anything, there's far less pain associated with defecting than with the alternative, weighted down with drudgery as it is.

taeric 2y ago

This seems silly. Parents that had the resources to shuttle kids to competitions have long been a thing. Yes, it was and is essentially an arms race, but opting out of it just means you are opting out of the race. Good luck with that, if it is in the direction you want your kids aimed. I'm sympathetic to the idea that depression and anxiety are real. I'm not entirely convinced opting out will accomplish much. This is like thinking if you opt out of eating, you will avoid food health related issues. Seems much more likely that everyone will have a different relationship with these things and finding what is healthy for you will be difficult. And lumping this in as somehow being as bad as phone related distractions is... dubious.

ryandrake 2y ago

> The challenge is this approach flies in the face of so many of the messages parents are getting about admissions to selective colleges. At a recent event hosted by her 17-year-old daughter’s high school, “the college counselor was talking about kids’ essays, saying that teens should tie their passions and interests to what they want to major in,” she says. “To be pre-med, these teens are expected to already have volunteered in a hospital or a lab. This is the root cause of the madness. Colleges insist on weighing these activities heavily in admissions decisions, so parents have no choice but to force their kids to jump through the hoops. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma problem: If parents all at once decided cooperatively that enough was enough, it would end. But any single parent who chooses "defect" and pushes their kid towards "activities" will be rewarded with an edge in admissions, so everyone else must choose "defect" and we're all worse-off because of it. Colleges need to get their heads out of their asses. Is my kid really going to be a better student because she volunteered at a hospital or played high school softball?

ravenstine 2y ago
> Is my kid really going to be a better student because she volunteered at a hospital or played high school softball? Not if it's a mere exercise in box-ticking.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  How do college admissions departments figure out who is box-ticking, to know whether the person they are looking at is a better student?
  - fargle 2y ago
    of course they don't. but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do extra-curriculars to benefit yourself or your kids, just because other people are dishonest.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Open question how much they care, I’d say. Willingness and ability to optimize ladder-climbing game-playing might be just fine by them.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bena 2y ago

The problem is everything is an arms race. You want little Johnny to do well. To get in good schools, to get a good job, to get all the good things you may not have had. And at first, you just had to meet some qualifications, and that was good enough. But then, Becky did all of that, and was in band. So band becomes a differentiator. So now, you have to do all the good AND be in band. Then Tommy also does all of that, band, and wrestling. Then Jack does wrestling, but travels to various competitions in addition to school wrestling. And every step is just trying to distinguish yourself from everyone else doing the same. Because, all other things are roughly equal. It's why we have people graduating with greater than 4.0 GPAs. Because, after a while, straight As wasn't enough. You needed extra As.

whimsicalism 2y ago

Traditional American elites are feeling increasingly insecure about their position as they face stronger and stronger academic/meritocratic competition every single year, giving rise to articles like these. Traditional elites have been outcompeted out of the top unis for at least two decades now and the competition is increasingly coming for their stronghold schools like NYU and USC. It is no longer enough to be a relatively bright child of rich parents and that is causing a lot of anxiety.

jld 2y ago

I kinda feel like this is a result of suburban car-centric living too. If every 45 minute practice comes with another 45 minutes of commuting time it eats up all of everyone's time, attention and downtime. I'm happy to let my kids do the activities they want to do, as long as it's within 5-10 minutes

ohelabs 2y ago

Love how all the initial comments on this are about how these parents are going to massively influence their children’s future by not _making_ them do multiple “extracurriculars”… TBH YOU ARE THE PROBLEM-> gamification of their life is what is causing all of this strife. Not everyone needs to be a 10X-er (to use a HN favorite term) honestly I would much rather work with 2x-5x engineers that went to a regular school than the unfortunate ones who have had their whole lives gamified for some social credit game played by their parents. Im not saying that there isn’t value in Ivy League but the games being played to get people in and this idea that it will == successful life is at best a marketing strategy…

stainablesteel 2y ago

its also worth noting unsupervised play as a mode of personal growth for kids every team has a coach and is being told what to do, none of the kids are figuring it out for themselves, and they're always being watched

kingrazor 2y ago

I have a hard time relating to this. My mom never had any pressure to do have me do any extracurriculars, and I didn't really do any. It was enough to just pass my classes and graduate. My local community college certainly didn't care.

carabiner 2y ago

Go to an undervalued school like Western Washington University which has a 90% acceptance rate and regularly sends CS grads to Google and the like. Someone could probably automate creating a list of such schools by scraping LinkedIn profiles, class size data (to know what % of each class goes to a top company) and cross referencing with each school's acceptance rate.

throwaway22032 2y ago

At least in the UK I think that the idea that University is the be all and end all is well past its peak. I know people in their 30s with degrees who are in house shares in the capital earning 30K a year. They are doing substantially worse than the folks I know in cheaper areas doing stuff like construction, sales, home renovations etc and I don't think that most of them are likely to catch up any time soon. I think graduating at Oxford, Cambridge, LSE and a few others is worth it. Otherwise you're probably better off living at home for as long as possible, saving a bunch of money and striking out on your own.

pessimizer 2y ago

If you're born wealthy, it's easy to die wealthy (unless you both have access to, and are stupid enough to actively destroy, your wealth.) If you're born poor, it's easy to die poor. The middle class is the only group that has to reproduce itself every generation. The middle class is shrinking due to technology, immigration, foreign competition, dogshit labor laws, and simple scaling (just because you had three kids doesn't meant that it will now take 1.5 kids to do your abstract job.) It leads to desperation and superstitious behavior; people trying to exactly repeat things that they've seen and experienced, consulting trendy oracles and gurus, and rationally trying to maximize the number of things that they try in the hope that one or more will save their children from a lifetime of gigwork. If you don't push your kids like that, and they end up successful, others will just say you were lucky. If they end up failures, they'll say you failed them.

adolph 2y ago

Slate has the mobile back-button-takeover cancer as if they are the only site to which one would navigate. It’s like we all got launched out of a catapult, as the activity/sports industrial complex roared back into life, sweeping away game nights and family grocery shopping in its inexorable gears. It’s like the author has zero agency and projects their own outlook onto everyone.

steveBK123 2y ago

It's funny because colleges will spout things about equity and helping the disadvantaged but the emphasis on esoteric extracurriculars is defacto classism. I grew up in a small nowhere town and played JV & rec league sports (basically free) while working a part time job from when I was like 15. So my extracurriculars don't really count, and were cash flow positive. These days being in NYC, my friends kids are adopting expensive signaling hobbies, going to Oxford & Princeton pre-college summer prep programs, using parents connections to get high school unpaid internships, and all sorts of other time & money intensive endeavors that could easily cost $50K by the time the kid is applying to college.

nathants 2y ago

imagine teaching kids to play this game instead of teaching them to self study with gpt4, kagi, and all the other tools revolutionizing information access. when your brain is tired, go outside and make your body tired too. with all the time saved, we can take a long drive to some distant activity. why not, it will probably be fun! otherwise, just try something else next time. no pressure, no drama. just play and growth.