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> At the end of his life, Steve Wozniak won't measure his happiness by the size of Apple's market cap or his personal net worth. This is a very popular stance

> At the end of his life, Steve Wozniak won't measure his happiness by the size of Apple's market cap or his personal net worth. This is a very popular stance to take for every millionare out there. Also, the absence of daily worries, the lack of problems induced by money, and the presence of an everlasting feeling of security can lead to a detachment from the concept of wealth. What I mean is, if you don’t experience the problems that money can easily solve—and there are many of them—and you possess a great deal of money, then you might not feel that money solves anything, simply because you haven’t encountered such problems in a long time. This could create the impression that money has no value, but it actually indicates that we’re detached from reality, not that we’ve achieved any form of moral enlightenment.

innagadadavida 2y ago
It’s definitely a luxury that not all of us can afford. Happy Monday.
mgiannopoulos 2y ago
And yet, I would bet that it is the majority of millionaires that mostly chase more millions instead of happiness.
- giuseppe_petri 2y ago
  What if they're finding happiness in the chase, rather than what's at the end of it?
kazinator 2y ago
> simply because you haven’t encountered such problems in a long time And because if you've vanquished the problems that money can solve, the only problems that occupy your attention are ones money can't solve, so those seem disproportionately important.
riedel 2y ago
There used to be a happiness cap of 75k earnings that everyone considered, but there seems to be a happiness inflation with a cap today 500k [0]. But the correlation also seems to be that it depends on the mindset of the people. In the end it might be easier to change your mind than your salary. [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...
- vlovich123 2y ago
  The problem with any study like that is it's a) hard to actually measure happiness b) your wealth depends on everyone else's. If everyone else is making 10k/year, you're 75k feels comparatively like a lot more & goes a lot further because costs are scaled down similarly. More importantly, humans derive a lot of satisfaction generally from comparative analysis - if I'm doing better than my neighbor, I'm happy and if I think he's doing better I'm upset.
The_Colonel 2y ago
It's a good point, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is an important concept to keep in mind. However, most software engineers live well enough that their basic needs are well covered by their above-average income.
nyokodo 2y ago
> This is a very popular stance to take for every millionare out there. Also, many non-millionaires who are older and have the perspective common to the old like Wozniak too probably. Their kids are grown if they had any, they’re probably retired and no one expects them to change the world and they’re unlikely to have any ambition to do so. They know more people in the cemetery now than those who are alive. Because of that they know that life and its struggles are a passing thing and you have to enjoy it while you can with others while they’re with you. That is a legitimate kind of moral enlightenment that even the young with their whole life and its struggles before them can benefit from contemplating.
- self_awareness 2y ago
  "Their kids are grown if they have any". This is one hell of an assumption. This assumes luck, or money if luck isn't there. Because if older people are unlucky and have no money, they are losing children. All of the people I know who have lost their offspring are either depressed or alcoholic. With money, it depends on where your focus is. If it's still money, then it's sad. But if it's in other people WHILE having lots of money, then you're happy. If you get your priorities straight. The phrase "money doesn't bring happiness" is one of the most silly things I've heard in my life. It's true that money shouldn't be the source of happiness, but it's enough to see all those fundraisers for children in need of medical assistance. In these cases, money can indeed bring a great deal of relief and happiness.
- spoiler 2y ago
  I mostly agree with you but we should also be realistic about people's lives and modern day challenges. It's easier to enjoy life when you're not worrying about providing for one self and their family, though. Some people work two jobs to provide for themselves or their family. Even here, some people work crazy hours. You need to have enough left over lucidity, energy, and will power in you to enjoy life after dealing with life's challenges. I'm ignoring the health aspects too, and it's becoming increasingly more expensive to stay healthy in urban settings too.
huygens6363 2y ago
Not to detract from your main point, but there are various shades of “happiness” and quite a few of these are available and are indeed enjoyed by the poorest of the poor. It can be vacuous rich people speak, but there is definitely something in untangling happiness from material circumstances (any kind). Note: I’m definitely not a millionaire.
hi_hi 2y ago
Relevant quote from the comic genius of Spike Milligan. “Money can't buy you happiness but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.” If you've never heard of him, it's well worth reading some of his books (see Memoirs), especially of his time serving during the Second World War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan
- dbacar 2y ago
  As "Amigo the Devil" says and sings: --- Everyone says money can't buy happiness And so far in my life, I'll agree But it seems a lot more comfortable to cry in a Lamborghini ---

innagadadavida 2y ago

It’s definitely a luxury that not all of us can afford. Happy Monday.

mgiannopoulos 2y ago

And yet, I would bet that it is the majority of millionaires that mostly chase more millions instead of happiness.

giuseppe_petri 2y ago
What if they're finding happiness in the chase, rather than what's at the end of it?

kazinator 2y ago

> simply because you haven’t encountered such problems in a long time And because if you've vanquished the problems that money can solve, the only problems that occupy your attention are ones money can't solve, so those seem disproportionately important.

riedel 2y ago

There used to be a happiness cap of 75k earnings that everyone considered, but there seems to be a happiness inflation with a cap today 500k [0]. But the correlation also seems to be that it depends on the mindset of the people. In the end it might be easier to change your mind than your salary. [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...

vlovich123 2y ago
The problem with any study like that is it's a) hard to actually measure happiness b) your wealth depends on everyone else's. If everyone else is making 10k/year, you're 75k feels comparatively like a lot more & goes a lot further because costs are scaled down similarly. More importantly, humans derive a lot of satisfaction generally from comparative analysis - if I'm doing better than my neighbor, I'm happy and if I think he's doing better I'm upset.

The_Colonel 2y ago

It's a good point, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is an important concept to keep in mind. However, most software engineers live well enough that their basic needs are well covered by their above-average income.

nyokodo 2y ago

> This is a very popular stance to take for every millionare out there. Also, many non-millionaires who are older and have the perspective common to the old like Wozniak too probably. Their kids are grown if they had any, they’re probably retired and no one expects them to change the world and they’re unlikely to have any ambition to do so. They know more people in the cemetery now than those who are alive. Because of that they know that life and its struggles are a passing thing and you have to enjoy it while you can with others while they’re with you. That is a legitimate kind of moral enlightenment that even the young with their whole life and its struggles before them can benefit from contemplating.

self_awareness 2y ago
"Their kids are grown if they have any". This is one hell of an assumption. This assumes luck, or money if luck isn't there. Because if older people are unlucky and have no money, they are losing children. All of the people I know who have lost their offspring are either depressed or alcoholic. With money, it depends on where your focus is. If it's still money, then it's sad. But if it's in other people WHILE having lots of money, then you're happy. If you get your priorities straight. The phrase "money doesn't bring happiness" is one of the most silly things I've heard in my life. It's true that money shouldn't be the source of happiness, but it's enough to see all those fundraisers for children in need of medical assistance. In these cases, money can indeed bring a great deal of relief and happiness.
spoiler 2y ago
I mostly agree with you but we should also be realistic about people's lives and modern day challenges. It's easier to enjoy life when you're not worrying about providing for one self and their family, though. Some people work two jobs to provide for themselves or their family. Even here, some people work crazy hours. You need to have enough left over lucidity, energy, and will power in you to enjoy life after dealing with life's challenges. I'm ignoring the health aspects too, and it's becoming increasingly more expensive to stay healthy in urban settings too.

huygens6363 2y ago

Not to detract from your main point, but there are various shades of “happiness” and quite a few of these are available and are indeed enjoyed by the poorest of the poor. It can be vacuous rich people speak, but there is definitely something in untangling happiness from material circumstances (any kind). Note: I’m definitely not a millionaire.

hi_hi 2y ago

Relevant quote from the comic genius of Spike Milligan. “Money can't buy you happiness but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.” If you've never heard of him, it's well worth reading some of his books (see Memoirs), especially of his time serving during the Second World War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan

dbacar 2y ago
As "Amigo the Devil" says and sings: --- Everyone says money can't buy happiness And so far in my life, I'll agree But it seems a lot more comfortable to cry in a Lamborghini ---