4 ms·

Encoding and storage aren't significant, relative to the bandwidth costs. Bandwidth is the high order bit. The primary difference between live and static video

by timr 2y ago

Encoding and storage aren't significant, relative to the bandwidth costs. Bandwidth is the high order bit. The primary difference between live and static video is the bursts -- get to a certain scale as a static video provider, and you can roughly estimate your bandwidth 95th percentiles. But one big live event can blow you out of the water, and push you over into very expensive tiers that will kill your economics.

foota 2y ago
If they're not significant, then why does youtube build ASICs for doing video encoding? See e.g., https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/youtube-is-now-building-its-own-video-transcoding-chips/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/youtube-is-now-build...
- jupp0r 2y ago
  Because when you are Youtube, even relatively marginal cost improvements can be huge in absolute. There is also the UX of having to wait X minutes for an uploaded video to be ready that is improved by this.
- cebert 2y ago
  Doing so wouldn’t hurt and would make a sizable impact at the scale of Google?
- oneplane 2y ago
  Because significance varies, as does optimisation. At YouTube scale it might matter more, or the benefits might be bigger, even if just to save some energy or carbon footprint (and even that might be just for a compliance or marketing line).
- danielheath 2y ago
  AFAICT, the answer to "why does Google do X" is basically always "because someone needed a launch to point at when they're up for promotion".
- westurner 2y ago
  VA-API, NVENC, nvenc > See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC#See_also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC#See_also NVIDIA Video Codec SDK v12.1 > NVENC Application Note: https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/12.1/nvenc-application-note/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/1... : > NVENC Capabilities: encoding for H.264, HEVC 8-bit, HEVC 10-bit, AV1 8-bit and AV1 10-bit. This includes motion estimation and mode decision, motion compensation and residual coding, and entropy coding. It can also be used to generate motion vectors between two frames, which are useful for applications such as depth estimation, frame interpolation, encoding using other codecs not supported by NVENC, or hybrid encoding wherein motion estimation is performed by NVENC and the rest of the encoding is handled elsewhere in the system. These operations are hardware accelerated by a dedicated block on GPU silicon die. NVENCODE APIs provide the necessary knobs to utilize the hardware encoding capabilities. FFMPEG > Platform [hw video encoder] API Availability table: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/HWAccelIntro#PlatformAPIAvailability https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/HWAccelIntro#PlatformAPIAvailab... : > AMF, NVENC/NVDEC/CUVID (CUDA, cuda-nvcc and libnpp) (NVIDIA), VCE (AMD), libmfx (Intel), MediaCodec, Media Foundation, MMAL, OpenMAX, RockChip MPP, V4L2 M2M, VA-API (Intel), Video Toolbox, Vulkan
- djtango 2y ago
  If you make a billion, a 1% saving is 10 million. You can hire and fund a lot of activity with 10 million. If you make 1 million, 10k isn't going to go very far towards paying devs to save you 1%
- throwaway984393 2y ago
  [dead]
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> But one big live event can blow you out of the water, and push you over into very expensive tiers that will kill your economics. But if you're broadcasting something live and what's killing you is that everyone wants to watch it at the same time... wouldn't you serve it P2P so that everyone is downloading it from each other rather than you?
- vaylian 2y ago
  I doubt that live(!) P2P video sharing would work. You will have some users who get the video stream directly from you. These primary peers will then need to relay the same data through their tiny consumer DSL line (slow upload!) to secondary peers. These secondary peers will have a noticeable lag. It will get even worse when you have tertiary peers.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    But the problem is that you have a gigantic audience. Many of them will make effective primary peers. If that weren't true, you wouldn't have a problem in the first place.
  - oliwarner 2y ago
    One great thing about P2P is you can provide more peers. You can surge inexpensive machines near your market and drastically reduce the load on your main servers. And home connections —while still largely asymmetric— are much faster than they used to be. Having 10mbps up means one client can serve two more. And there's a lot more FTTP with 100-1000mbps up too. These really make a difference when you have a large swarm.
    - IanCal 2y ago
      A problem with live is that everyone wants the content at the same time. One client can only serve two more after it has the content. Any drop in connection is also very disruptive because you don't have a big buffer and everyone wants the content now. A place this could work is streaming a conference, live-ish is the goal and the producers aren't rich. Sports would be the worst case.

by timr 2y ago

foota 2y ago

If they're not significant, then why does youtube build ASICs for doing video encoding? See e.g., https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/youtube-is-now-building-its-own-video-transcoding-chips/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/youtube-is-now-build...

jupp0r 2y ago
Because when you are Youtube, even relatively marginal cost improvements can be huge in absolute. There is also the UX of having to wait X minutes for an uploaded video to be ready that is improved by this.
cebert 2y ago
Doing so wouldn’t hurt and would make a sizable impact at the scale of Google?
oneplane 2y ago
Because significance varies, as does optimisation. At YouTube scale it might matter more, or the benefits might be bigger, even if just to save some energy or carbon footprint (and even that might be just for a compliance or marketing line).
danielheath 2y ago
AFAICT, the answer to "why does Google do X" is basically always "because someone needed a launch to point at when they're up for promotion".
westurner 2y ago
VA-API, NVENC, nvenc > See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC#See_also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC#See_also NVIDIA Video Codec SDK v12.1 > NVENC Application Note: https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/12.1/nvenc-application-note/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/1... : > NVENC Capabilities: encoding for H.264, HEVC 8-bit, HEVC 10-bit, AV1 8-bit and AV1 10-bit. This includes motion estimation and mode decision, motion compensation and residual coding, and entropy coding. It can also be used to generate motion vectors between two frames, which are useful for applications such as depth estimation, frame interpolation, encoding using other codecs not supported by NVENC, or hybrid encoding wherein motion estimation is performed by NVENC and the rest of the encoding is handled elsewhere in the system. These operations are hardware accelerated by a dedicated block on GPU silicon die. NVENCODE APIs provide the necessary knobs to utilize the hardware encoding capabilities. FFMPEG > Platform [hw video encoder] API Availability table: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/HWAccelIntro#PlatformAPIAvailability https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/HWAccelIntro#PlatformAPIAvailab... : > AMF, NVENC/NVDEC/CUVID (CUDA, cuda-nvcc and libnpp) (NVIDIA), VCE (AMD), libmfx (Intel), MediaCodec, Media Foundation, MMAL, OpenMAX, RockChip MPP, V4L2 M2M, VA-API (Intel), Video Toolbox, Vulkan
djtango 2y ago
If you make a billion, a 1% saving is 10 million. You can hire and fund a lot of activity with 10 million. If you make 1 million, 10k isn't going to go very far towards paying devs to save you 1%
throwaway984393 2y ago
[dead]

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> But one big live event can blow you out of the water, and push you over into very expensive tiers that will kill your economics. But if you're broadcasting something live and what's killing you is that everyone wants to watch it at the same time... wouldn't you serve it P2P so that everyone is downloading it from each other rather than you?

vaylian 2y ago
I doubt that live(!) P2P video sharing would work. You will have some users who get the video stream directly from you. These primary peers will then need to relay the same data through their tiny consumer DSL line (slow upload!) to secondary peers. These secondary peers will have a noticeable lag. It will get even worse when you have tertiary peers.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  But the problem is that you have a gigantic audience. Many of them will make effective primary peers. If that weren't true, you wouldn't have a problem in the first place.
- oliwarner 2y ago
  One great thing about P2P is you can provide more peers. You can surge inexpensive machines near your market and drastically reduce the load on your main servers. And home connections —while still largely asymmetric— are much faster than they used to be. Having 10mbps up means one client can serve two more. And there's a lot more FTTP with 100-1000mbps up too. These really make a difference when you have a large swarm.
  - IanCal 2y ago
    A problem with live is that everyone wants the content at the same time. One client can only serve two more after it has the content. Any drop in connection is also very disruptive because you don't have a big buffer and everyone wants the content now. A place this could work is streaming a conference, live-ish is the goal and the producers aren't rich. Sports would be the worst case.