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How GM Made the $35,000 Chevrolet Equinox EV into a 319-Mile Range Champ
- Animats 2y agoNice. That's the business Chevrolet is supposed to be in. "Basic transportation", their ads once read. The push for "more crap per car" and higher margins has gotten completely out of hand.[1] Detroit is abandoning the rest of the world to China and hiding behind US tariffs. If it were were not for the new 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars, we'd have $25,000 electrics from BYD and Nio in the US now. Like the rest of the world. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/china-us-ev-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/china-us-...
- teaearlgraycold 2y ago> If it were were not for the new 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars, we'd have $25,000 electrics from BYD and Nio in the US now. Seems ridiculous that American manufacturers don't have to compete.
- peutetre 2y agoIt's not competition when it's not a level playing field. European and American manufacturers don't get equal access to the Chinese market. Almost all of them have had to enter into partnerships with local Chinese companies with technology transfer agreements to get access to China. China has subsidized its domestic car industry with cheap loans, cheap land, and direct subsidies for the last decade. What the tariffs do is balance the Chinese government's support of its local car industry: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/14/business/china-exports-manufacturing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/14/business/china-exports-ma... If anything tariffs should have been applied sooner.
- NewJazz 2y agoChina has subsidized its domestic car industry with cheap loans, cheap land, and direct subsidies for the last decade. As opposed to US and EU firms, which have certainly never received any subsidies /s.
- pricechild 2y agoIs it not true that labour is also cheaper, and why is that?
- peutetre 2y agoWorkers have no bargaining power. Residence permits limit the movement of workers. Independent unions are banned. Union organizers are jailed.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y agoNot according to a random video I watched recently. They make over $4k/mo, not too bad.
- itsoktocry 2y agoSo we all get to drive more expensive electric vehicles.
- asadotzler 2y agoTesla has received 3-5 times what BYD has received in US and California government subsidies. Take that subsidies bullshit somewhere else.
- peutetre 2y agoIt's funny how people emotionally pluck some numbers out of the air as if that's some kind of argument. You clearly don't know much about it.
- dataviz1000 2y agoHopefully VinFast will start to introduce lower priced models sooner than later as they gain traction in the United States with their electric vehicles. Perhaps the tariff is to protect VinFast also and therefore US interests in Vietnam.
- alephnerd 2y agoVinfast has a kind of bleh reputation in VN as well (most Vinfast EVs I'd see in VN are bought by a taxi company that I think might be owned by VinGroup as well), and most US interests in VN use a Korean or Japanese proxy (like how they used to do it in China 20-30 years ago) > Perhaps the tariff is to protect VinFast also and therefore US interests in Vietnam With To Lam as President now, I wouldn't be too hopeful. His rise right now is very similar to Xi's a decade ago. He'll most likely leverage China to consolidate power, especially because a lot of the US detente was done by his rival's faction a decade ago. Depends on how important the SCS issue is (US and Vietnam's Armed Forces have been very aligned on against China) versus authoritarian consolidation of power (China and factions of the VCP and MPS are aligned as they don't want a "Color Revolution"-lite like in Korea in the 1980s, Thailand in the 1990s, and CEE in the 90s-2000s. Also much of VN's leadership studied in Czecholovakia during the collapse of the Eastern Bloc). Unlike Xi who started his career in the PLA under Geng Biao and had a shot at leadership track within it in the 1980s, the VN Military doesn't really like To Lam and the MPS in general. Seriously hope I am wrong and overreading.
- TMWNN 2y agoI've thought for a while that the US-Vietnam rapprochement versus China would result in the US Navy returning to Cam Ranh Bay. Does that seem less likely now?
- alephnerd 2y ago> would result in the US Navy returning to Cam Ranh Bay I don't think that was ever on the table. Giving any country a base in VN would drastically affect it's tightrope of neutrality. For example, they have strategic partnerships with US, China, Russia, Sourh Korea, Japan, and India in order to balance relations and maintain neutrality One thing I'm scared is if Trump becomes president, because a lot of people in his orbit who potentially will become SecState aren't as publicly tactful as it is a quick political win, and might force VN to choose between neutrality or a side. If VN is pushed to make a choice, they most likely will choose China just like Thailand+Malaysia did because no one wants a war over the SCS. ---------- The Armed Forces are pro-US, as much of the leadership started their career in the Sino-Vietnamese and Vietnam-Cambodia wars from 1979-1991, and the VN Navy has had multiple confrontations with China in the 2010-2017 period similar to those PH is facing today. The MPS and Nguyen Phu Trong's faction (I call them the Northern faction because of Nguyen and his acolytes starting their career in North VN during the war to 1990s) are much more authoritarian, and more open to leaning towards China due to business and party relations as a lot of FDI in Northern VN came from China. The new president is from this faction. The currently purged faction (who I call the Southern faction because Nguyen Xuan Phuc and Truong Dan Sang plus their acolytes started their careers in Southern VN in the 1990s). They are also authoritarian, but more business facing and more open to Western relations as much of Southern VN's FDI came from Korean and Japanese companies. VN was largely ruled by this faction throughout the late 2000s-early 2020s when COVID corruption scandals came front and center. Hoa/Chinese Vietnamese are fairly prominent in this faction as they tend to be prominent in business. For now, VN appears to prefer neutrality and not having to choose between a side, but if push comes to shove, they will make the choice that will prevent a localized war due to leadership's memories of the 1940s-1990s.
- SubiculumCode 2y agoIt's annoying that most cars today start in the 40's, what happened to basic budget cars? Personally, I just want a reliable and safe car, not a flashy one, and given the CA mortgage I carry, I have no interest in indulging in frivolous expenditures.
- somerandomqaguy 2y agoIf I had a guess? A lot of people asking, "Why buy a new cheap car when you can spend the same money on one that's off a 2 year lease that is much nicer equipped?"
- bagels 2y agoMargins were too low and were not made up by sales, so most of the cheap (small) cars are simply not made. People want large cars.
- anovikov 2y agoThis. U.S. car market is saturated. Everyone has a car. There is no way to (sustainably, over a period comparable to a car's lifetime) sell more cars. So only way to increase revenue is to sell more expensive cars. This is also why homes keep getting bigger. There is no way to sell (many) more homes, so to make more, bigger ones have to be built.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y agoWat? There isn't enough housing as is. Cars I can believe you on, but not housing. Give me a 2000 sqft home for under a million, I'll buy it
- itsoktocry 2y agoThere are tons of cars under $40k, what do you mean? Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, Nissan, GM, VW all make safe, basic cars well under $40k. The Honda Accord is a perennial "10 best" selection, stars under $30k. Most cars in Consumer Reports cars of the year start under $25k.
- m_fayer 2y agoIndeed. Here in Germany EVs are taking a beating and it seems that the political right wants to spin that as a wholesale rejection of the whole concept. Whereas the reality is that the country’s proud megabrand (VW) has launched a ridiculous line of overpriced glitchfest EVs with unwanted faux-apple styling, then had a public meltdown about how no one wants to buy EVs. Give me a reasonably priced and reasonably featured EV Caddy workhorse and I will buy one along with half this country.
- rasz 2y agoArticle is about a car that doesnt exist yet. As stated in one of first comments under current cheapest Equinox sells at Tesla Y price.
- asadotzler 2y agoMore like $30K-$45 EVs from BYD. When you see the dollar price in China, double that to get the German or Australian prices and you could expect to pay at least that much in the US if BYD builds cars in the US or Mexico where labor and transportation prices will hike the price even further. Another way to think about this is BYD will undercut Tesla by 10% to win market. If a Tesla is $40K, the BYD might be $36K. It will not be $25K because that would cost BYD $11K they didn't have to sacrifice to win the sale.
- telotortium 2y agoI mean, Detroit ceded “basic transportation” to the Japanese decades ago, because they suck at making it compared to Toyota and Honda. Comparative advantage is the only thing saving them.
- NewJazz 2y agoThey've literally never made a budget sedan EV. Looks like they are happy to let Hyundai and Tesla take that market, while they churn out SUVs? Also the 35k trim won't be available until later this year.
- pkulak 2y agoThat market barely has room for the two players already there. Really, there isn’t even room for Hyundai.
- NewJazz 2y agoHyundai is doing pretty well [0]. Outside the US, Polestar and BYD are also selling well. [0] https://www.motor1.com/news/714695/hyundai-evs-sales-spiked-100-percent/ https://www.motor1.com/news/714695/hyundai-evs-sales-spiked-...
- itsoktocry 2y agoReading about cars on HN is a real Gell-Mann Amnesia moment for me. So many people unaware of the state of the car market, and what's out there. I wonder if the consensus on HN is still that Tesla is going to bankrupt the entire car industry?
- pkulak 2y agoYes, I know. We’re talking about EV sedans. Hyundai has one, and it’s a great car, but it’s not exactly their volume seller. I don’t know that Polstar considers the 2 a sedan.
- NewJazz 2y agoThey shipped almost 2000 in one month. I don't know what kind of volume you're looking for for a 40k+ car in an economy filled with price sensitive consumers, but they are definitely selling more Ioniq 6s than GM is selling Blazer EVs.
- diek 2y ago
- milleramp 2y ago5 years ago after they cancelled the Volt, the Equinox with a hybrid voltec system would have been a massive hit. Perhaps they didn't want a hit because of the margins. At this point after seeing them backtrack on great cars like the volt and bolt, and what happened to the Blazer EV that was promised?? Call me skeptical, on this.
- peutetre 2y ago> what happened to the Blazer EV that was promised?? They started selling it: https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/blazer-ev https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/blazer-ev Edmunds review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErCaN1E6Ais https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErCaN1E6Ais MotorTrend review: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-chevy-blazer-ev-first-test-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-chevy-blazer-ev-firs... Car and Driver overview: https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/blazer-ev https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/blazer-ev
- inferiorhuman 2y agoThat's their MO. Release something rough around the edges, cancel it when they refine it and/or it gains traction. Don't forget the EV1, Fiero, Corvair, the Australian GTO/G8/SS/Caprice, the entire Saturn division, etc., etc. They bailed on the American Caprice and ceded the market for big ass cop cars to Ford. LAPD liked theirs so much they refurbished them at least once instead of going with new Crown Vics.
- NewJazz 2y agoThey really fumbled their Voltec platform, and not having a smooth transition from BEV2 to Ultium is kinda annoying, but Ultium seems like a solid architecture with several vehicles built on it and either shipping or close to shipping (and not just GM vehicles!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultium#Vehicles_using_Ultium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultium#Vehicles_using_Ultium
- guesswho_ 2y agoJust copy BYD or subcontract them, price can go to 20k.
- asadotzler 2y agoNot a chance. BYD cars outside of china sell for twice that.
- hunglee2 2y agoExcellent news. US auto can clearly build EV's, what is required is to do so for the mass market, rather than the luxury segment which is Tesla's core audience. Biden's adoption of the Great Wall of Tariffs will help protect the likes of GM further, so that they can continue to iterate and produce better, more affordable vehicles for the American consumer
- NewJazz 2y agoTariffs don't decrease prices for consumers, and they don't help GM compete in the international market.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoTariffs help to fight the government-subsidized Chinese EVs. Prices of which are only low because the Chinese taxpayer is paying for the difference between the real price to produce and the sales price. Without tariffs China can destroy every single US industry, one at a time, by flooding the marked with subsidized products.
- NewJazz 2y agoDo you have any proof that China significantly subsidizes their vehicles on an ongoing basis? Also doesn't the US heavily subsidize domestic manufacturers e.g. during the great recession and more recently with EV subsidies? And how exactly do tariffs help US manufacturers stay competitive on the global market? They don't.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y agoUS subsidizes like 10x more than China does
- asadotzler 2y agoYou are confused. US and California subsides for EVs (cars and factories and tariffs) far outpaces China's. Tesla has received 3-5 times what BYD has in subsidies for example, so maybe take this tired ass bullshit claim of China subsidies being somehow out of the norm here to some forum with people who can't read good and you might get away with it.
- SubiculumCode 2y agoI happen to be in the market for a cheap commuter after I realized I spent upwards of $400 per month on my used ICE vehicle. I'm trying to choose between an older $6000 used Chevy Spark, which would probably save me $350 a month, or a 2021/22 Bolt The silly Chevy 2024 pause on the Bolt means there aren't new ones really available for sale and the new car IRA rebate. I was even considering a late model Volt, which is just a great car, and a shame that it was cut.
- hnav 2y agoWhich market are you in? There are still 100s of unsold Bolts E(U)V nationwide, I have about 30 within 50 miles of me.
- DennisL123 2y agoAnnounced. Not shipping.
- giftjames121 2y ago[dead]
- bryanlarsen 2y agoRight now you can lease either a Toyota bz4x or a Kona EV for $200 a month. That's significantly cheaper, 230 or 250 mile range and available now.