7 ms·

Please don't do this. It's a great way to get urushiol poisoning of your GI tract.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
This sounds very much like something that someone might hear on Joe Rogan's podcast and think it's a good idea because someone who knows how to put two sentences together sounded like they knew what they were talking about.
- phoronixrly 2y ago
  Same with vitamin d self-medication here on HN
  - mort96 2y ago
    Is there any research out there which links moderate amounts of vitamin D (such as the recommended dosages on vitamin D supplements) to any negative effects at all? Is there any research to indicate that a lack of urushiol has negative effects, similar to how we know that a lack of vitamin D has negative effects? If not I don't really see the connection
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    There is lots of research saying that vitamin D deficiency causes problems, and the deficiency is more common than you'd expect. Other health conditions and habits can lead to a deficiency.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      There is fixing deficiency and then there is "hyper dozing". Also lot of it is seasonal, northern hemisphere is entering summer so there should be plenty of sun light even with short exposure to light.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        I don't think exposure to light is enough to overcome an actual deficiency. When you're exposed to light you get kind of a huge dose, until you get a tan. Then your skin won't produce much more for a while. You're right about overdoing it. There is such a thing as vitamin D poisioning. I think it draws calcium out of your bones or something. On the other hand, not enough vitamin D is bad for your bones too. Fortunately, there are tests for vitamin D. If you think you have a problem with it, you ought to get a test.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    It's not a prescription drug, so I'm not really sure what 'self-medication' means; I self-medicate with caffeine, might eat an orange and self-medicate vit C later, etc. NHS (UK) guidance: > Government advice is that everyone should consider taking a daily vitamin D supplement during the autumn and winter. > People at high risk of not getting enough vitamin D, all children aged 1 to 4, and all babies (unless they're having more than 500ml of infant formula a day) should take a daily supplement throughout the year. (People at high risk = for example darker skin, or indoor jobs.)
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    Vitamin D deficiency (and while we're at it, B12 deficiency and iron deficiency) are real deficiency issues that have risen in numbers across Western societies for quite the time now - IIRC, a large contributor is our change in diets and living habits. Basically, we're spending far less time working out in the open so our body doesn't generate vitamin D on its own in sufficient quantities, and the trend towards highly processed, nutritionally inflexible diets on one side and vegetarianism/veganism on the other side leads to a whole host of malnutrition issues. Unfortunately, the "malnutrition" levels in bloodwork are mostly calibrated on white European males... so similar to BMI [1] and a few medications and diseases [2], there is a "vitamin D paradox" in Black people who seem to not be that sensitive to lower vit-D levels than White people [3]. Human bodies and genetics are fascinating, even if you're not an expert in it. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9877251/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9877251/ [2] https://academic.oup.com/ehjcvp/article/8/7/738/6644872 https://academic.oup.com/ehjcvp/article/8/7/738/6644872 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954269/
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Gradual exposure to allergens like urushiol has been a legitimate recognized treatment plan for decades. Animals are able to eat poison ivy and poison oak. It's a brave strategy to eat the stuff, but nobody including smug netizens like yourself knows if it will work for someone else. Everything that works in medicine was probably thought to be ridiculous by someone at one point. Joe Rogan isn't the best source of medical advice, but he has been smeared by the media on behalf of big pharma. His approach to treating COVID came from a doctor and was not "horse paste"... CNN was proven to have edited video of Joe Rogan to make his skin look off-color. Also, never forget that the mainstream media said the "vaccines" would stop transmission of the virus when all the experts knew it wouldn't do so, from the start. They also lied about side effects.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only takes one to ruin your reputation. Rogan has aired hundreds. It’s even more dangerous than one might think because sometimes, like in some examples you reference, there is some legitimate medicine mixed in.
    - freedomben 2y ago
      This is the most anti-science attitude I think I've seen in a very long time. It's also foolish and dangerous IMHO, because it greatly contributes to the very thing you want to prevent: amplification and creation of quack science to the gen pop. Simply depriving these people of airtime does NOT quash their views and make them go away. It fuels conspiracy theories such as about how big pharma is censoring ideas about natural (or already highly-available) treatments in order to make billions on devoloping their vaccines and using government levers to force people to buy them. (They did try to do that too, though they got lucky in that none of the "natural" treatments seemed to really work. But had they worked, their reaction would have been the same.) It also means the discussions people see are going to happen on shows/forums/podcasts where the host doesn't push back on them and offer challenges and critical thinking. This not only sets a terrible example for people by demonstrating through social proof that one should accept these things uncritically, but it makes it appear as though the case is very strong and there isn't a good counter-argument! This double effect makes a strong impression on people in the exact opposite way that we want. I think Joe Rogan has done more to bring sanity to these things than most people. Have you ever watched those episodes? He is very conversational but if there is ever a claim that doesn't seem supported, he will ask Jamie (his assistant or producer or whatever) look it up, and they are highly skeptical and choosy of sources. We should know by now that censoring information these days does not work. We're no longer living in the society where the average person only gets information from TV or books available at their library or local book store. If there's a quack theory out there, it will get to people through the internet. The answer is not to shut down the internet. We need to expose these ideas and defeat them using logical and scientific refutation, and we need to encourage and teach critical thinking skills. This is a new world we are living in, and the tried and true techniques or censoring and book burning do not work anymore. Embrace it and use it.
PaulHoule 2y ago
It’s not the first time I’ve heard about it. I can’t condone it but I can’t rule out that some variant of this might work. The reaction to urushiol is an allergic reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol and a vaccine is under development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB Some people just don’t react to it while others do. I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy from a specialist who gave me increasingly concentrated shots of allergens weekly for years. After a while my asthma went into remission and I quit taking medicine for it. I still have hay fever symptoms some times but they aren’t too bad and I rarely medicate for them because I get side effects even from some of the “non-drowsy” antihistamines. Even though it is done under medical supervision, it is a controversial treatment. It’s banned in the U.K. They’d have me sit around the office for 30 minutes in case I had a bad reaction which they could usually treat with an injection of epinephrine but could be lethal if somebody was really unlucky. Note there is at least one report of treatment of poison ivy sensitivity this way https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(09)01972-1/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(09)01972-1/ful... The thing is I got a treatment from my doc which was somewhat evidence based, compare that to all the bizzaro ideas circulating such as Edgar Cayce’s idea that you could treat hay fever with an alcohol tincture of ragweed. (Got that from a herbalist once, it does seem harmless) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce
- rwmj 2y ago
  Is it the same plant that was used for shokushinbutsu, the "self-mummification" practiced by Japanese monks? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu Edit: OK, not quite. The Japanese lacquer tree was used which produces the same "active" substance which is what slowly kills you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_vernicifluum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_vernicifluum
  - mlyle 2y ago
    > which is what slowly kills you Again, not quite: starvation by not eating normal food is what kills you. Urushiol is non-toxic at even massive doses; but vanishingly small doses will provoke painful/itchy allergic reactions in many people.
alecst 2y ago
Would be nice if you addressed the article instead of the headline. It’s actually fascinating.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Unfortunately the article is paywalled
x3n0ph3n3 2y ago
Urushiol soup is actually a common East-Asian folk remedy and you can order it in some restaurants -- I've actually had it. It's not exactly a _toxin_, just sometimes trigger allergic reactions.

This sounds very much like something that someone might hear on Joe Rogan's podcast and think it's a good idea because someone who knows how to put two sentences together sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

phoronixrly 2y ago
Same with vitamin d self-medication here on HN
- mort96 2y ago
  Is there any research out there which links moderate amounts of vitamin D (such as the recommended dosages on vitamin D supplements) to any negative effects at all? Is there any research to indicate that a lack of urushiol has negative effects, similar to how we know that a lack of vitamin D has negative effects? If not I don't really see the connection
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  There is lots of research saying that vitamin D deficiency causes problems, and the deficiency is more common than you'd expect. Other health conditions and habits can lead to a deficiency.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    There is fixing deficiency and then there is "hyper dozing". Also lot of it is seasonal, northern hemisphere is entering summer so there should be plenty of sun light even with short exposure to light.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      I don't think exposure to light is enough to overcome an actual deficiency. When you're exposed to light you get kind of a huge dose, until you get a tan. Then your skin won't produce much more for a while. You're right about overdoing it. There is such a thing as vitamin D poisioning. I think it draws calcium out of your bones or something. On the other hand, not enough vitamin D is bad for your bones too. Fortunately, there are tests for vitamin D. If you think you have a problem with it, you ought to get a test.
- OJFord 2y ago
  It's not a prescription drug, so I'm not really sure what 'self-medication' means; I self-medicate with caffeine, might eat an orange and self-medicate vit C later, etc. NHS (UK) guidance: > Government advice is that everyone should consider taking a daily vitamin D supplement during the autumn and winter. > People at high risk of not getting enough vitamin D, all children aged 1 to 4, and all babies (unless they're having more than 500ml of infant formula a day) should take a daily supplement throughout the year. (People at high risk = for example darker skin, or indoor jobs.)
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Vitamin D deficiency (and while we're at it, B12 deficiency and iron deficiency) are real deficiency issues that have risen in numbers across Western societies for quite the time now - IIRC, a large contributor is our change in diets and living habits. Basically, we're spending far less time working out in the open so our body doesn't generate vitamin D on its own in sufficient quantities, and the trend towards highly processed, nutritionally inflexible diets on one side and vegetarianism/veganism on the other side leads to a whole host of malnutrition issues. Unfortunately, the "malnutrition" levels in bloodwork are mostly calibrated on white European males... so similar to BMI [1] and a few medications and diseases [2], there is a "vitamin D paradox" in Black people who seem to not be that sensitive to lower vit-D levels than White people [3]. Human bodies and genetics are fascinating, even if you're not an expert in it. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9877251/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9877251/ [2] https://academic.oup.com/ehjcvp/article/8/7/738/6644872 https://academic.oup.com/ehjcvp/article/8/7/738/6644872 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5954269/
wakawaka28 2y ago
Gradual exposure to allergens like urushiol has been a legitimate recognized treatment plan for decades. Animals are able to eat poison ivy and poison oak. It's a brave strategy to eat the stuff, but nobody including smug netizens like yourself knows if it will work for someone else. Everything that works in medicine was probably thought to be ridiculous by someone at one point. Joe Rogan isn't the best source of medical advice, but he has been smeared by the media on behalf of big pharma. His approach to treating COVID came from a doctor and was not "horse paste"... CNN was proven to have edited video of Joe Rogan to make his skin look off-color. Also, never forget that the mainstream media said the "vaccines" would stop transmission of the virus when all the experts knew it wouldn't do so, from the start. They also lied about side effects.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only takes one to ruin your reputation. Rogan has aired hundreds. It’s even more dangerous than one might think because sometimes, like in some examples you reference, there is some legitimate medicine mixed in.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    This is the most anti-science attitude I think I've seen in a very long time. It's also foolish and dangerous IMHO, because it greatly contributes to the very thing you want to prevent: amplification and creation of quack science to the gen pop. Simply depriving these people of airtime does NOT quash their views and make them go away. It fuels conspiracy theories such as about how big pharma is censoring ideas about natural (or already highly-available) treatments in order to make billions on devoloping their vaccines and using government levers to force people to buy them. (They did try to do that too, though they got lucky in that none of the "natural" treatments seemed to really work. But had they worked, their reaction would have been the same.) It also means the discussions people see are going to happen on shows/forums/podcasts where the host doesn't push back on them and offer challenges and critical thinking. This not only sets a terrible example for people by demonstrating through social proof that one should accept these things uncritically, but it makes it appear as though the case is very strong and there isn't a good counter-argument! This double effect makes a strong impression on people in the exact opposite way that we want. I think Joe Rogan has done more to bring sanity to these things than most people. Have you ever watched those episodes? He is very conversational but if there is ever a claim that doesn't seem supported, he will ask Jamie (his assistant or producer or whatever) look it up, and they are highly skeptical and choosy of sources. We should know by now that censoring information these days does not work. We're no longer living in the society where the average person only gets information from TV or books available at their library or local book store. If there's a quack theory out there, it will get to people through the internet. The answer is not to shut down the internet. We need to expose these ideas and defeat them using logical and scientific refutation, and we need to encourage and teach critical thinking skills. This is a new world we are living in, and the tried and true techniques or censoring and book burning do not work anymore. Embrace it and use it.

PaulHoule 2y ago

It’s not the first time I’ve heard about it. I can’t condone it but I can’t rule out that some variant of this might work. The reaction to urushiol is an allergic reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol and a vaccine is under development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB Some people just don’t react to it while others do. I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy from a specialist who gave me increasingly concentrated shots of allergens weekly for years. After a while my asthma went into remission and I quit taking medicine for it. I still have hay fever symptoms some times but they aren’t too bad and I rarely medicate for them because I get side effects even from some of the “non-drowsy” antihistamines. Even though it is done under medical supervision, it is a controversial treatment. It’s banned in the U.K. They’d have me sit around the office for 30 minutes in case I had a bad reaction which they could usually treat with an injection of epinephrine but could be lethal if somebody was really unlucky. Note there is at least one report of treatment of poison ivy sensitivity this way https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(09)01972-1/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(09)01972-1/ful... The thing is I got a treatment from my doc which was somewhat evidence based, compare that to all the bizzaro ideas circulating such as Edgar Cayce’s idea that you could treat hay fever with an alcohol tincture of ragweed. (Got that from a herbalist once, it does seem harmless) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

rwmj 2y ago
Is it the same plant that was used for shokushinbutsu, the "self-mummification" practiced by Japanese monks? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu Edit: OK, not quite. The Japanese lacquer tree was used which produces the same "active" substance which is what slowly kills you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_vernicifluum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_vernicifluum
- mlyle 2y ago
  > which is what slowly kills you Again, not quite: starvation by not eating normal food is what kills you. Urushiol is non-toxic at even massive doses; but vanishingly small doses will provoke painful/itchy allergic reactions in many people.

alecst 2y ago

Would be nice if you addressed the article instead of the headline. It’s actually fascinating.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
Unfortunately the article is paywalled

x3n0ph3n3 2y ago

Urushiol soup is actually a common East-Asian folk remedy and you can order it in some restaurants -- I've actually had it. It's not exactly a _toxin_, just sometimes trigger allergic reactions.