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By 2027, the NYPD drone program will be repurposed to checking for unauthorized grills, having failed at being a "first responder" to real crime. What is a dro

By 2027, the NYPD drone program will be repurposed to checking for unauthorized grills, having failed at being a "first responder" to real crime. What is a drone supposed to do? Take a witness statement? Run into someone who is stealing something? A big part of the deterrent of the police is that threat of violence. A drone telling you "your crime has been recorded now wait for us to arrest you" will work for a few days on the intimidation factor.

rthnbgrredf 2y ago
> What is a drone supposed to do? Wait, until they put a 9mm on that thing.
sambull 2y ago
Is that some sort of zoning thing in NYC? I know a county around me is already using drones to check for structures/additions that aren't listed for tax purposes.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  Due to the dense packing of people in NYC, there are very few places that allow you to have any kind of open flame, including in a barbecue or grill. I think the requirement is that your grill has to be at least 10 feet from any flammable material, including building walls, other furniture, and pretty much anything not made of concrete or metal. You can't do it on a terrace or a balcony either. Almost nowhere in NYC do you have a 10 foot radius with nothing flammable in it.
  - mattzito 2y ago
    This is inaccurate- - charcoal - no roofs or balconies, but terraces and backyards are okay. You do need 10 feet of clearance from walls and fences, but this is less rare than you might think. I’ve lived in two places that met this criteria and have a few friends that did as well - propane - illegal in most circumstances except with a very small propane tank - natural gas - legal in all circumstances as long as installed by a city licensed installer. It’s true that it’s not as common as it is in the suburbs, but essentially every building built in the last 20 years or major renovations ends up including one or more grills.
  - tekla 2y ago
    Completely incorrect. I've lived on the UWS at 72nd st and ran a smoker and charcoal grill AND a outdoors fireplace in our backyard. You have no idea what you are talking about. I wasn't trying to hide it either, I ran some (3x) 18 hour brisket smokes with hickory in 2018.
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      There's a good chance your smoker was technically illegal, if you didn't have 10 foot clearance around it with no "flammable objects" in it. The NYPD doesn't generally enforce that law so much except in poor neighborhoods or if your landlord reports you.
nothercastle 2y ago
They will drone strike you for using a gas weed wacker and letting your kids play in the front yard unsupervised. When the criminals steal your car/bike/phone they will do nothing.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Bingo! I do love the very imaginative scenarios posted to this thread. Drones and chasing dangerous suspects! Drones gathering evidence and filming the crime scene! These are great. In reality, the police are always going to favor enforcing things with high revenue/effort ratios, which don't put their own skins at risk. Essentially, milking non-violent people who can be fined for something and are likely to pay the fine, while ignoring violent people and thieves. If someone was getting robbed in front of me and I was standing there filming it, cops would probably ignore the robbery and go after me for "interfering with an investigation" or something.
  - 77pt77 2y ago
    Obstruction and then they would step on your foot and claim you touched them and add a charge for battery on a police officer.
    - Teever 2y ago
      And then they get drone strikes from a vengeful friend. Cops aren't gonna be able to get away with their bully bullshit when people can strike back with technological impunity.
      - hollerith 2y ago
        So, you're looking forward lethal drones' becoming widely available to individuals, then?
        Teever 2y ago
        I wouldn't say looking forward to it, more, anticipating it and the vast social change that it will bring. Corrupt police officers are allowed to operate with impunity because there's no pressure from above to stop them, and the pressure that came from below has been crushed by the technological advancements that allow police to coordinate with radios and computers for searches. It will be interesting to see what happens when that sort of pressure comes back in the form of drones. I figure you'll start to see sentences for police brutality increase after a few cops who are let free get droned a few feet from a courthouse by the vengeful family of the victim. There might just be enough pressure from above to put these corrupt cops in jail, if only for their own personal safety because it might just stop being safe on the streets for them.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
> What is a drone supposed to do? A drone is cheaper than a helicopter when it comes to following a potential suspect on the run.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  A whack with a baseball bat, a slammed door, or even a good punch will take out the drone, though. I suspect that you're right and the intent is to be able to pursue people who are on foot with a helicopter-like device.
  - andy99 2y ago
    They'll realize that weakness eventually and replace them with spider like robots that are more mobile and harder to take down.
  - Almondsetat 2y ago
    I guess teaching drone operators proper pursuit tactics is impossible?
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    What is the penalty in new york for using a baseball bat to disable a police car?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kcb 2y ago
    Or they could just fly like a few feet higher than the person...
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      Not in a hallway, which is exactly where someone will run when being chased by a drone.
melling 2y ago
Wow. A complete lack of imagination. Try again. I’d love to spend my day debating it, but I’ve been through this story before.
- lostemptations5 2y ago
  How so? How are drones supposed to arrest people?
  - gregorymichael 2y ago
    same way the NYPD helicopter pilots do now.
  - melling 2y ago
    No one said they would. Instead of using selection bias to explain all the things they can’t do, try imagining what they can do.
    - lostemptations5 2y ago
      Right -- harassment, racial profiling, etc. Good point.
philipov 2y ago
My secret undercover contacts in the NYPD have provided me with advance footage of the new drones that will be deployed throughout the city, demonstrating their innovative scanning technology - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtnHPNlzCz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtnHPNlzCz8
nlh 2y ago
I know you're semi-trolling (and I kinda agree they will definitely eventually use these for things that are "illegal" like grills and speed checks, etc.) BUT: Let's think of the positives here. If a 911 call comes in and it will take 5-8 mins to get an officer on the scene but 90 seconds to get a drone there to see what's happening, is that really a bad idea? I think the plan isn't to stop using officers - it's to get a drone on scene so the officers are better prepared when they arrive.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  Do you understand the current differential between NYPD capability and action taken? You need to understand that NYPD and cops in general aren’t primarily challenged in their service by their means to execute on it (though you can also find measures suggesting so, and thus needing more funding and powers) For ex they put a load of cops in the subway system, at huge cost, and the results were roughly the same level of crime given overall crime rates falling (and falling just slightly), with no evidence available of increased presence preventing crime, seemingly no impact, except for catching more fare evasion (recouping single digit percent of cost of the program). It was celebrated in gov and by the police as a success and they’re continuing their program. They use the program to divert a proliferation of these fare evasion cops stationed all over the city to other things like emergent protest suppression outside the subways. To talk about “zero second” extreme case police response capabilities.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    How is this related to their comment? A drone that can start recording crucial evidence before police arrive could absolutely be a deciding factor in having enough evidence to charge or convict someone.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      It’s a case study of what (nypd) police are capable of and achieve when they have zero second response time and surveillance capabilities And what the public understands the cost to go toward and why versus what the resulting day to day and bigger picture actions are as a result of the greater numbers and powers gained over the public
psychlops 2y ago
The key uses will be for monitoring protests, facial recognition and crowd control.
Narhem 2y ago
Yeah seems kind of like an unnecessary step.
Hamuko 2y ago
If we can strap a Hellfire missile onto a drone, we can surely strap a taser too. No wait, they already did it: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones-school-shootings https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones...
yellowapple 2y ago
> Run into someone who is stealing something? Soon: https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Manhack https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Manhack

rthnbgrredf 2y ago

> What is a drone supposed to do? Wait, until they put a 9mm on that thing.

sambull 2y ago

Is that some sort of zoning thing in NYC? I know a county around me is already using drones to check for structures/additions that aren't listed for tax purposes.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
Due to the dense packing of people in NYC, there are very few places that allow you to have any kind of open flame, including in a barbecue or grill. I think the requirement is that your grill has to be at least 10 feet from any flammable material, including building walls, other furniture, and pretty much anything not made of concrete or metal. You can't do it on a terrace or a balcony either. Almost nowhere in NYC do you have a 10 foot radius with nothing flammable in it.
- mattzito 2y ago
  This is inaccurate- - charcoal - no roofs or balconies, but terraces and backyards are okay. You do need 10 feet of clearance from walls and fences, but this is less rare than you might think. I’ve lived in two places that met this criteria and have a few friends that did as well - propane - illegal in most circumstances except with a very small propane tank - natural gas - legal in all circumstances as long as installed by a city licensed installer. It’s true that it’s not as common as it is in the suburbs, but essentially every building built in the last 20 years or major renovations ends up including one or more grills.
- tekla 2y ago
  Completely incorrect. I've lived on the UWS at 72nd st and ran a smoker and charcoal grill AND a outdoors fireplace in our backyard. You have no idea what you are talking about. I wasn't trying to hide it either, I ran some (3x) 18 hour brisket smokes with hickory in 2018.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    There's a good chance your smoker was technically illegal, if you didn't have 10 foot clearance around it with no "flammable objects" in it. The NYPD doesn't generally enforce that law so much except in poor neighborhoods or if your landlord reports you.

nothercastle 2y ago

They will drone strike you for using a gas weed wacker and letting your kids play in the front yard unsupervised. When the criminals steal your car/bike/phone they will do nothing.

ryandrake 2y ago
Bingo! I do love the very imaginative scenarios posted to this thread. Drones and chasing dangerous suspects! Drones gathering evidence and filming the crime scene! These are great. In reality, the police are always going to favor enforcing things with high revenue/effort ratios, which don't put their own skins at risk. Essentially, milking non-violent people who can be fined for something and are likely to pay the fine, while ignoring violent people and thieves. If someone was getting robbed in front of me and I was standing there filming it, cops would probably ignore the robbery and go after me for "interfering with an investigation" or something.
- 77pt77 2y ago
  Obstruction and then they would step on your foot and claim you touched them and add a charge for battery on a police officer.
  - Teever 2y ago
    And then they get drone strikes from a vengeful friend. Cops aren't gonna be able to get away with their bully bullshit when people can strike back with technological impunity.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      So, you're looking forward lethal drones' becoming widely available to individuals, then?
      - Teever 2y ago
        I wouldn't say looking forward to it, more, anticipating it and the vast social change that it will bring. Corrupt police officers are allowed to operate with impunity because there's no pressure from above to stop them, and the pressure that came from below has been crushed by the technological advancements that allow police to coordinate with radios and computers for searches. It will be interesting to see what happens when that sort of pressure comes back in the form of drones. I figure you'll start to see sentences for police brutality increase after a few cops who are let free get droned a few feet from a courthouse by the vengeful family of the victim. There might just be enough pressure from above to put these corrupt cops in jail, if only for their own personal safety because it might just stop being safe on the streets for them.

pavel_lishin 2y ago

> What is a drone supposed to do? A drone is cheaper than a helicopter when it comes to following a potential suspect on the run.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pclmulqdq 2y ago
A whack with a baseball bat, a slammed door, or even a good punch will take out the drone, though. I suspect that you're right and the intent is to be able to pursue people who are on foot with a helicopter-like device.
- andy99 2y ago
  They'll realize that weakness eventually and replace them with spider like robots that are more mobile and harder to take down.
- Almondsetat 2y ago
  I guess teaching drone operators proper pursuit tactics is impossible?
- sandworm101 2y ago
  What is the penalty in new york for using a baseball bat to disable a police car?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kcb 2y ago
  Or they could just fly like a few feet higher than the person...
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    Not in a hallway, which is exactly where someone will run when being chased by a drone.

melling 2y ago

Wow. A complete lack of imagination. Try again. I’d love to spend my day debating it, but I’ve been through this story before.

lostemptations5 2y ago
How so? How are drones supposed to arrest people?
- gregorymichael 2y ago
  same way the NYPD helicopter pilots do now.
- melling 2y ago
  No one said they would. Instead of using selection bias to explain all the things they can’t do, try imagining what they can do.
  - lostemptations5 2y ago
    Right -- harassment, racial profiling, etc. Good point.

philipov 2y ago

My secret undercover contacts in the NYPD have provided me with advance footage of the new drones that will be deployed throughout the city, demonstrating their innovative scanning technology - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtnHPNlzCz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtnHPNlzCz8

nlh 2y ago

I know you're semi-trolling (and I kinda agree they will definitely eventually use these for things that are "illegal" like grills and speed checks, etc.) BUT: Let's think of the positives here. If a 911 call comes in and it will take 5-8 mins to get an officer on the scene but 90 seconds to get a drone there to see what's happening, is that really a bad idea? I think the plan isn't to stop using officers - it's to get a drone on scene so the officers are better prepared when they arrive.

wahnfrieden 2y ago
Do you understand the current differential between NYPD capability and action taken? You need to understand that NYPD and cops in general aren’t primarily challenged in their service by their means to execute on it (though you can also find measures suggesting so, and thus needing more funding and powers) For ex they put a load of cops in the subway system, at huge cost, and the results were roughly the same level of crime given overall crime rates falling (and falling just slightly), with no evidence available of increased presence preventing crime, seemingly no impact, except for catching more fare evasion (recouping single digit percent of cost of the program). It was celebrated in gov and by the police as a success and they’re continuing their program. They use the program to divert a proliferation of these fare evasion cops stationed all over the city to other things like emergent protest suppression outside the subways. To talk about “zero second” extreme case police response capabilities.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  How is this related to their comment? A drone that can start recording crucial evidence before police arrive could absolutely be a deciding factor in having enough evidence to charge or convict someone.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    It’s a case study of what (nypd) police are capable of and achieve when they have zero second response time and surveillance capabilities And what the public understands the cost to go toward and why versus what the resulting day to day and bigger picture actions are as a result of the greater numbers and powers gained over the public

psychlops 2y ago

The key uses will be for monitoring protests, facial recognition and crowd control.

Narhem 2y ago

Yeah seems kind of like an unnecessary step.

Hamuko 2y ago

If we can strap a Hellfire missile onto a drone, we can surely strap a taser too. No wait, they already did it: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones-school-shootings https://www.npr.org/2022/06/04/1103066205/taser-armed-drones...

yellowapple 2y ago

> Run into someone who is stealing something? Soon: https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Manhack https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Manhack