9 ms·

WD Releases New 6TB 2.5-Inch External Hard Drives – First Upgrade in Seven Years

62 points by ksec 3y ago

jandrese 3y ago
The article speculates that these are using SMR because the previous 5TB drives used SMR and these drives seem to be just the 5TB drive with an extra platter. If so, the combination of 2.5" form factor and SMR means the sustained write performance will be abysmal. Just painfully slow. And it's even worse for a USB drive since they have to be ready to disconnect at a moments notice. I think the upshot is that 2.5" spinning disks are a dead industry.
- _mlbt 3y ago
  I don't think they're dead yet, just dying. SSDs are still too expensive to replace them for a lot of tasks. You don't need super fast drives for backups or bringing ripped music and movies with you on a business trip.
  - bitmasher9 2y ago
    I think 2.5” magnetic storage is basically obsolete. If I care about the most storage per dollar I’ll get the full sized discs. If I care about portability then I by definition also care about things such as read/write time, reliability, and physical size.
    - _mlbt 2y ago
      I think due to the exorbitant cost of upgrading internal laptop storage, 2.5" external hard drives still have a place at least for a little while longer. For use cases that require portability, a lot of storage, and aren't performance sensitive, such as backups on the go or bringing a large media library with you, there aren't really many better options at reasonable prices currently.
      - merb 2y ago
        Most laptops these days have a m2 slot which makes upgrading pretty cheap
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        A ~6TB M2 SSD upgrade on a laptop is anything BUT cheap, even external ones. That's why these HDDs exist: For the data hoarders on a budget who also need some portability instead of leaving everything at home on a NAS. You keep your existing 512/1024 SSD in your laptop for the "hot data" (OS, apps, frequently used work files), and get a 2.5 HDD for all the "warm/cold data" (steam library, photos, Nextcloud, backups, movies, etc). Storing all that type of data inside the laptop's SSD is kind of a waste of money at current SSD prices unless of course an 8TB NVME is not a huge expense for you, then by all means, but not everyone has that kind of cash lying around, hence why these 6TB 2.5 HDDs come in handy.
      - jandrese 2y ago
        It is increasingly difficult to find laptops that even have a 2.5" bay. The drive for thinness makes it a tough sell, especially since the primary storage is always going to be a M.2. You basically only see them on aircraft carrier "gamer" laptops that are already huge because they need a massive cooling system for the graphics card. If you're talking about upgrading old laptops where it only has a 2.5" bay that's even worse. Windows 10 and later absolutely hates running on 2.5" spinning drives. It can take literally 30+ minutes to log in due to the amount of thrashing it does.
        bonton89 2y ago
        I believe he's talking more about external 2.5" drives. Their low power usage means they can be run off a port with no need for an annoying wallwart. SSDs are definitely encroaching into this space but 2.5" HDD still have a cost advantage.
        jandrese 2y ago
        Shouldn't a USB-C port have enough power delivery for a 5.25" drive? Or do the external drive enclosure manufacturers not want to step up the 5v to 12v?
- schainks 2y ago
  I have spinning disks from the 90s that still work. SSDs are amazing but don’t have the longevity.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  External high capacity spinning rust are definitely not dead, unless money is no object for you to go all SSDs. Don't forget SSDs went up in price recently. Last year you could buy a 4TB Samsung SATA SSD for the price of these 6TB HDDs, but since then it has doubled in price due to a reduction in supply across the entire NAND manufacturing industry, making large HDDs like these price competitive again, which is probably why WD launched them now. Yeah it's slow but you're not meant to boot and run apps off these, just to hoard your Nextcloud, backups, holiday photos and "legitimately obtained" music and movies in a form factor that can be easily picked up and taken on the go, instead of tied to a desk with an external power brick like the 3.5 inch ones or NASs. Granted I might be in a bubble and the market for affordable compact portable high capacity external HDDs might be a low demand niche at this point, but I personally will pick one up when it becomes available since it fits my budget and personal use case perfectly.
hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
WD quality control has gone to shit, I won’t touch them. Samsung I’ve had zero issues with. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/sandisk-extreme-ssds-are-worthless-multiple-lawsuits-against-wd-say/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/sandisk-extreme-ssds...
- _mlbt 3y ago
  Solid state drives (SSDs) are very different from hard drives (HDs). Western Digital still seems decent when it comes to hard drives at least in some categories... https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q1-2024/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q1-...
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    Even if their quality is alright they seem to enjoy lying to their customers. First they "submarined" SMR into their NAS drives[1], then they started shipping 7200rpm drives as "5400rpm class" drives to cover up performance regression (while increasing power draw)[2]. I wouldn't trust any spec WD puts out about their drives. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/caveat-emptor-smr-disks-are-being-submarined-into-unexpected-channels/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/caveat-emptor-smr-di... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ikk0rv/psa_multiple_wd_5400rpm_drives_are_actually/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ikk0rv/psa_mul...
    - eqvinox 2y ago
      The key thing with WD is to not buy actual WD drives, but rather the originally HGST/IBM ones ("WUH…" part number). It seems they still haven't assimilated that company purchase on the technical side, and those drives seem pretty good (according to Backblaze stats at least.)
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  That's for consumer SSDs. I use their IBM->Hitachi->WD Ultrastar enterprise HDD's. HC560 enterprise (20 TB - WUH722020ALE6L4) seem pretty good and use CMR rather than SMR, ePMR, EAMR, or HAMR. I have around 40 14 TB WUH721414ALE6L4 and WUH721414ALE604 that have been trouble-free for years.
thot_experiment 2y ago
I really need to migrate away from random external drives sitting around holding my kinda important but not that important data and build a proper NAS. Does anyone have tips on how to get this done for cheap? Last time I specced something out it was like $1k (i don't recall the details but it was something like 12TB*3 JBOD with some parity scheme in some COTS enclosure). I just don't care that much but it's been on my "problems to solve" list for some time now to not have to remember which external my Buffy DVD rips are on. I'd be interested if someone has some 1337 tips on how to build a nice NAS for cheap. (ebay/craigslist? datacenter decommissioning?)
- hodlish 2y ago
  I have a cheap Synology Nas and I love it. Super simple to setup and they have a nice android app to automatically backup my photos.
- sigmonsays 2y ago
  you have to know what you're doing but i've always done linux software raid in a big PC case. You can load it up with drives and get a good power supply and you're set. However, as I get older, I have less time for this stuff, so now I just pay for a synology.
- justin66 2y ago
  You need to really own a NAS for a while to appreciate the simplicity and flexibility of a bunch of random external drives...
- leetcrew 2y ago
  there's not much to it really. you just build a bare-minimum PC and then put some decent hard drives in it. the drives are going to dominate the total cost of any reasonable NAS build. if you want something like 24GB plus an extra for parity, that's ~$600 in storage right there. you might be able to get it down to $800 if you really cheap out on the other components, but $1000 would get you something that could double as a decent home server (current gen desktop cpu, 32GB ram, etc). I wouldn't recommend putting used hard drives in a NAS. the main point of a NAS is to be resilient storage. buying drives of uncertain provenance is just setting yourself up for pain.
thrdbndndn 2y ago
> WD isn't selling the bare 2.5-inch drive on a standalone basis – at least not yet Have been wondering about this for a while. Even for the 3.5"s which they do sell the bare version, they're often more expensive than the packaged portable version. Lots of people therefore choose to buy them and then gut it to install the bare disks on their computers/NAS. I don't quite get why it is this way. I can't imagine HDD have a large margin to begin with, surely the additional cost of a plastic casing, power adapter and cables should make them more expensive, not the opposite?
- eqvinox 2y ago
  I'm entirely guessing, but the cost of warranty/support might be a factor too. If you buy an external drive in an enclosure, and mess up the removal-from-case and subsequent actual install, it's much easier to refuse obligations as the device was "misused". A bare drive sold to a private consumer probably has way more installation problems than anything else in this market. (Again: guessing.)
- userbinator 2y ago
  I've heard that the lower quality drives get sold as portable ones since they wouldn't likely be powered on for as long as ones that were meant to be in computers. There's been various comments here and elsewhere about "shucked" drives not lasting as long, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21695478 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21695478
  - dnel 2y ago
    I assumed that but then I've been torturing a usb WD 14TB drive for years with 24/7 writes backing up a busy logging server and it hasn't missed a beat. I guess it's just the luck of the draw?
    - chii 2y ago
      i dont know if true, but i imagine that a drive that is not constantly powered on and off might last longer.

62 points by ksec 3y ago

The article speculates that these are using SMR because the previous 5TB drives used SMR and these drives seem to be just the 5TB drive with an extra platter. If so, the combination of 2.5" form factor and SMR means the sustained write performance will be abysmal. Just painfully slow. And it's even worse for a USB drive since they have to be ready to disconnect at a moments notice. I think the upshot is that 2.5" spinning disks are a dead industry.

_mlbt 3y ago
I don't think they're dead yet, just dying. SSDs are still too expensive to replace them for a lot of tasks. You don't need super fast drives for backups or bringing ripped music and movies with you on a business trip.
- bitmasher9 2y ago
  I think 2.5” magnetic storage is basically obsolete. If I care about the most storage per dollar I’ll get the full sized discs. If I care about portability then I by definition also care about things such as read/write time, reliability, and physical size.
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    I think due to the exorbitant cost of upgrading internal laptop storage, 2.5" external hard drives still have a place at least for a little while longer. For use cases that require portability, a lot of storage, and aren't performance sensitive, such as backups on the go or bringing a large media library with you, there aren't really many better options at reasonable prices currently.
    - merb 2y ago
      Most laptops these days have a m2 slot which makes upgrading pretty cheap
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        A ~6TB M2 SSD upgrade on a laptop is anything BUT cheap, even external ones. That's why these HDDs exist: For the data hoarders on a budget who also need some portability instead of leaving everything at home on a NAS. You keep your existing 512/1024 SSD in your laptop for the "hot data" (OS, apps, frequently used work files), and get a 2.5 HDD for all the "warm/cold data" (steam library, photos, Nextcloud, backups, movies, etc). Storing all that type of data inside the laptop's SSD is kind of a waste of money at current SSD prices unless of course an 8TB NVME is not a huge expense for you, then by all means, but not everyone has that kind of cash lying around, hence why these 6TB 2.5 HDDs come in handy.
    - jandrese 2y ago
      It is increasingly difficult to find laptops that even have a 2.5" bay. The drive for thinness makes it a tough sell, especially since the primary storage is always going to be a M.2. You basically only see them on aircraft carrier "gamer" laptops that are already huge because they need a massive cooling system for the graphics card. If you're talking about upgrading old laptops where it only has a 2.5" bay that's even worse. Windows 10 and later absolutely hates running on 2.5" spinning drives. It can take literally 30+ minutes to log in due to the amount of thrashing it does.
      - bonton89 2y ago
        I believe he's talking more about external 2.5" drives. Their low power usage means they can be run off a port with no need for an annoying wallwart. SSDs are definitely encroaching into this space but 2.5" HDD still have a cost advantage.
        jandrese 2y ago
        Shouldn't a USB-C port have enough power delivery for a 5.25" drive? Or do the external drive enclosure manufacturers not want to step up the 5v to 12v?
schainks 2y ago
I have spinning disks from the 90s that still work. SSDs are amazing but don’t have the longevity.
Rinzler89 2y ago
External high capacity spinning rust are definitely not dead, unless money is no object for you to go all SSDs. Don't forget SSDs went up in price recently. Last year you could buy a 4TB Samsung SATA SSD for the price of these 6TB HDDs, but since then it has doubled in price due to a reduction in supply across the entire NAND manufacturing industry, making large HDDs like these price competitive again, which is probably why WD launched them now. Yeah it's slow but you're not meant to boot and run apps off these, just to hoard your Nextcloud, backups, holiday photos and "legitimately obtained" music and movies in a form factor that can be easily picked up and taken on the go, instead of tied to a desk with an external power brick like the 3.5 inch ones or NASs. Granted I might be in a bubble and the market for affordable compact portable high capacity external HDDs might be a low demand niche at this point, but I personally will pick one up when it becomes available since it fits my budget and personal use case perfectly.

hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago

WD quality control has gone to shit, I won’t touch them. Samsung I’ve had zero issues with. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/sandisk-extreme-ssds-are-worthless-multiple-lawsuits-against-wd-say/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/sandisk-extreme-ssds...

_mlbt 3y ago
Solid state drives (SSDs) are very different from hard drives (HDs). Western Digital still seems decent when it comes to hard drives at least in some categories... https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q1-2024/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q1-...
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Even if their quality is alright they seem to enjoy lying to their customers. First they "submarined" SMR into their NAS drives[1], then they started shipping 7200rpm drives as "5400rpm class" drives to cover up performance regression (while increasing power draw)[2]. I wouldn't trust any spec WD puts out about their drives. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/caveat-emptor-smr-disks-are-being-submarined-into-unexpected-channels/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/caveat-emptor-smr-di... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ikk0rv/psa_multiple_wd_5400rpm_drives_are_actually/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ikk0rv/psa_mul...
  - eqvinox 2y ago
    The key thing with WD is to not buy actual WD drives, but rather the originally HGST/IBM ones ("WUH…" part number). It seems they still haven't assimilated that company purchase on the technical side, and those drives seem pretty good (according to Backblaze stats at least.)
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
That's for consumer SSDs. I use their IBM->Hitachi->WD Ultrastar enterprise HDD's. HC560 enterprise (20 TB - WUH722020ALE6L4) seem pretty good and use CMR rather than SMR, ePMR, EAMR, or HAMR. I have around 40 14 TB WUH721414ALE6L4 and WUH721414ALE604 that have been trouble-free for years.

thot_experiment 2y ago

I really need to migrate away from random external drives sitting around holding my kinda important but not that important data and build a proper NAS. Does anyone have tips on how to get this done for cheap? Last time I specced something out it was like $1k (i don't recall the details but it was something like 12TB*3 JBOD with some parity scheme in some COTS enclosure). I just don't care that much but it's been on my "problems to solve" list for some time now to not have to remember which external my Buffy DVD rips are on. I'd be interested if someone has some 1337 tips on how to build a nice NAS for cheap. (ebay/craigslist? datacenter decommissioning?)

hodlish 2y ago
I have a cheap Synology Nas and I love it. Super simple to setup and they have a nice android app to automatically backup my photos.
sigmonsays 2y ago
you have to know what you're doing but i've always done linux software raid in a big PC case. You can load it up with drives and get a good power supply and you're set. However, as I get older, I have less time for this stuff, so now I just pay for a synology.
justin66 2y ago
You need to really own a NAS for a while to appreciate the simplicity and flexibility of a bunch of random external drives...
leetcrew 2y ago
there's not much to it really. you just build a bare-minimum PC and then put some decent hard drives in it. the drives are going to dominate the total cost of any reasonable NAS build. if you want something like 24GB plus an extra for parity, that's ~$600 in storage right there. you might be able to get it down to $800 if you really cheap out on the other components, but $1000 would get you something that could double as a decent home server (current gen desktop cpu, 32GB ram, etc). I wouldn't recommend putting used hard drives in a NAS. the main point of a NAS is to be resilient storage. buying drives of uncertain provenance is just setting yourself up for pain.

thrdbndndn 2y ago

> WD isn't selling the bare 2.5-inch drive on a standalone basis – at least not yet Have been wondering about this for a while. Even for the 3.5"s which they do sell the bare version, they're often more expensive than the packaged portable version. Lots of people therefore choose to buy them and then gut it to install the bare disks on their computers/NAS. I don't quite get why it is this way. I can't imagine HDD have a large margin to begin with, surely the additional cost of a plastic casing, power adapter and cables should make them more expensive, not the opposite?

eqvinox 2y ago
I'm entirely guessing, but the cost of warranty/support might be a factor too. If you buy an external drive in an enclosure, and mess up the removal-from-case and subsequent actual install, it's much easier to refuse obligations as the device was "misused". A bare drive sold to a private consumer probably has way more installation problems than anything else in this market. (Again: guessing.)
userbinator 2y ago
I've heard that the lower quality drives get sold as portable ones since they wouldn't likely be powered on for as long as ones that were meant to be in computers. There's been various comments here and elsewhere about "shucked" drives not lasting as long, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21695478 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21695478
- dnel 2y ago
  I assumed that but then I've been torturing a usb WD 14TB drive for years with 24/7 writes backing up a busy logging server and it hasn't missed a beat. I guess it's just the luck of the draw?
  - chii 2y ago
    i dont know if true, but i imagine that a drive that is not constantly powered on and off might last longer.