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There are people who argue that anyone who wants to die is not mentally well enough to decide to die. Can't say I totally disagree...

mewpmewp2 2y ago
What if they are in constant mental pain and anguish, but otherwise a sane person?
- throwaway11460 2y ago
  If that's really true, then perhaps. But those people would probably argue that these two conditions are mutually exclusive. Again, can't say I totally disagree. If only there was another way... We can't fix it now, but if we could put that person in suspended animation or some other kind of stasis, we might revive them once treatment was available... This all is really sad and I don't wish anyone to suffer. But I also don't want people to die because they thought their situation is hopeless and it might turn out it isn't...
- whalesalad 2y ago
  none of that should even matter. remove morals from the equation. remove religious conditioning. we are all just animals. total freedom and agency would suggest that you should have just as much control over whether you live or die as anything else in your life. no justification required. you want out? ok, cya bud.
  - disiplus 2y ago
    I for one am glad that it's not easy to commit suicide, because my sister tried and failed and after 10 years is finaly better. She has scares on the hands that she's hiding with tattoos. Mental problems can be resolved. Not all of them and not easy but it can work out.
- jbverschoor 2y ago
  Everybody, just like animals, is able to simply starve. The rest is just an ill mind speaking out of despair.
whalesalad 2y ago
what is the consequence of allowing someone to die? regardless of the circumstance. there is absolutely zero reason to force someone to live if they do not want to. a bird hits a glass window of a skyscraper and falls to the ground. no big deal. a squirrel is run over by a truck. no big deal. an individual is sick of living and decides to leave, no big deal.
- throwaway11460 2y ago
  The consequence is that a unique intelligent, sentient being ceases to exist. That's absolutely terrible. And worse, they might die without receiving proper treatment or it might become available soon after.
  - whalesalad 2y ago
    > The consequence is that a unique intelligent, sentient being ceases to exist. Why is this such a bad thing? I see no issue here. Forcing another to exist just because they have some kind of untapped value that hasn't manifest yet is antiquated thinking. Obviously rehabilitation and therapy should be on the table, to try and bring someone back to normalcy - but if that fails we should not falter.
    - throwaway11460 2y ago
      It's a bad thing because I have personal experience with the court taking over my decision making when I wasn't in a mental state to do it for myself. I'm immensely grateful even though I didn't think so at the time, fought it and thought they have no right to do so. I had no idea things can change so much and wasn't thinking clearly, life is beautiful now.
yumraj 2y ago
There is usually a religious reasoning behind such people’s opinion/argument, not logical reasoning. If someone doesn’t want to live, why does the state, or anyone for that matter, get a say? A person didn’t have a say in being born, they should at least be allowed to die on their terms. BTW, the same states don’t have a problem sending soldiers to their deaths when it suits them.
- throwaway11460 2y ago
  Usually, but not always. In my case, I'm against religion and my state can't (or shouldn't be able to) send me anywhere - but it has a duty to protect me from myself if I'm unfit to decide.
  - manuelmoreale 2y ago
    And how does one decide that you’re unfit to decide?
    - throwaway11460 2y ago
      Well, I lived through that personally. There was a court hearing where they appointed a legal representative (an attorney) and a public defender, and then they argued about it for several hours during multiple hearings. The representative was checking on me, my conditions at the hospital and my treatment frequently and reported it to the court. As soon as they all deemed me to be back in my own head, they gave me my rights back. I hated that they took my agency back then, but looking back it was fair and all of the people involved tried their best to represent my interests, and I'm grateful they did it.
      - yumraj 2y ago
        That is a special case and I agree that in that case authorization is needed since older people can be especially vulnerable to evil relatives. How about, one is allowed to go to some authority or doctor, 3 times at the space of 10 days, and express their desire. They can always change their mind. At the end of their 3 visits they are given a prescription. This is just an example, there can be other ways. Edit: to clarify, 3 visits, 10 days apart is 30 days. And, the person has to do themselves so obviously need to be healthy and the person receiving the affidavit/declaration can notice if there are any mental health concerns. Make it 6 visits for total of min 60 days. As long as there is a good and relatively easy process I’m good.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Where can I apply to have opposition to all of my opinions recategorized as mental incompetence? Man, things would be so much easier.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

mewpmewp2 2y ago

What if they are in constant mental pain and anguish, but otherwise a sane person?

throwaway11460 2y ago
If that's really true, then perhaps. But those people would probably argue that these two conditions are mutually exclusive. Again, can't say I totally disagree. If only there was another way... We can't fix it now, but if we could put that person in suspended animation or some other kind of stasis, we might revive them once treatment was available... This all is really sad and I don't wish anyone to suffer. But I also don't want people to die because they thought their situation is hopeless and it might turn out it isn't...
whalesalad 2y ago
none of that should even matter. remove morals from the equation. remove religious conditioning. we are all just animals. total freedom and agency would suggest that you should have just as much control over whether you live or die as anything else in your life. no justification required. you want out? ok, cya bud.
- disiplus 2y ago
  I for one am glad that it's not easy to commit suicide, because my sister tried and failed and after 10 years is finaly better. She has scares on the hands that she's hiding with tattoos. Mental problems can be resolved. Not all of them and not easy but it can work out.
jbverschoor 2y ago
Everybody, just like animals, is able to simply starve. The rest is just an ill mind speaking out of despair.

whalesalad 2y ago

what is the consequence of allowing someone to die? regardless of the circumstance. there is absolutely zero reason to force someone to live if they do not want to. a bird hits a glass window of a skyscraper and falls to the ground. no big deal. a squirrel is run over by a truck. no big deal. an individual is sick of living and decides to leave, no big deal.

throwaway11460 2y ago
The consequence is that a unique intelligent, sentient being ceases to exist. That's absolutely terrible. And worse, they might die without receiving proper treatment or it might become available soon after.
- whalesalad 2y ago
  > The consequence is that a unique intelligent, sentient being ceases to exist. Why is this such a bad thing? I see no issue here. Forcing another to exist just because they have some kind of untapped value that hasn't manifest yet is antiquated thinking. Obviously rehabilitation and therapy should be on the table, to try and bring someone back to normalcy - but if that fails we should not falter.
  - throwaway11460 2y ago
    It's a bad thing because I have personal experience with the court taking over my decision making when I wasn't in a mental state to do it for myself. I'm immensely grateful even though I didn't think so at the time, fought it and thought they have no right to do so. I had no idea things can change so much and wasn't thinking clearly, life is beautiful now.

yumraj 2y ago

There is usually a religious reasoning behind such people’s opinion/argument, not logical reasoning. If someone doesn’t want to live, why does the state, or anyone for that matter, get a say? A person didn’t have a say in being born, they should at least be allowed to die on their terms. BTW, the same states don’t have a problem sending soldiers to their deaths when it suits them.

throwaway11460 2y ago
Usually, but not always. In my case, I'm against religion and my state can't (or shouldn't be able to) send me anywhere - but it has a duty to protect me from myself if I'm unfit to decide.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago
  And how does one decide that you’re unfit to decide?
  - throwaway11460 2y ago
    Well, I lived through that personally. There was a court hearing where they appointed a legal representative (an attorney) and a public defender, and then they argued about it for several hours during multiple hearings. The representative was checking on me, my conditions at the hospital and my treatment frequently and reported it to the court. As soon as they all deemed me to be back in my own head, they gave me my rights back. I hated that they took my agency back then, but looking back it was fair and all of the people involved tried their best to represent my interests, and I'm grateful they did it.
    - yumraj 2y ago
      That is a special case and I agree that in that case authorization is needed since older people can be especially vulnerable to evil relatives. How about, one is allowed to go to some authority or doctor, 3 times at the space of 10 days, and express their desire. They can always change their mind. At the end of their 3 visits they are given a prescription. This is just an example, there can be other ways. Edit: to clarify, 3 visits, 10 days apart is 30 days. And, the person has to do themselves so obviously need to be healthy and the person receiving the affidavit/declaration can notice if there are any mental health concerns. Make it 6 visits for total of min 60 days. As long as there is a good and relatively easy process I’m good.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

Where can I apply to have opposition to all of my opinions recategorized as mental incompetence? Man, things would be so much easier.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]