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I don't think all enterprise websites are this bad. Certainly my utility websites (e.g. electric/gas) are a lot more functional and a lot less user hostile, be

I don't think all enterprise websites are this bad. Certainly my utility websites (e.g. electric/gas) are a lot more functional and a lot less user hostile, because...those companies would really like it if you paid your bill on time, so at least that workflow is pretty polished.

fein 2y ago
You aren't dealing with the enterprise site at that point - rather a public frontend that uses some enterprise-y backend. The real fun begins when you get into the actual enterprise frontends for internal use like SAP Netweaver and Sailpoint, which end up being quite a lot like the broadcom experience in the article.
- not2b 2y ago
  It's a racket. It might not be as common today, but I remember when there were lots of people whose career was based on their SAP expertise, and the reason they got hired was that no one else could deal with that crap if anything went wrong. Once a lot of those people get into big companies, their career is based on preventing their employer from dumping SAP (or equivalent) for something better. So, it's like they have agents inside all the large companies that use their stuff.
  - eitally 2y ago
    When I worked in manufacturing IT for a F500, a full 20% of our IT organization was various flavors of Oracle support.
- duozerk 2y ago
  > Sailpoint Oh gods, the painful flashbacks.
Sesse__ 2y ago
Wait, you need to go to a website to pay your electric bill? Mine is auto-deducted from my bank (up to a certain monthly maximum that I have set myself). You get bills directly in your bank, and then approve (possibly allowing auto-deduction for future cases) or modify or ignore them as you see fit.
- MH15 2y ago
  One would figure you'd set up this autopay through the utility provider's website.
  - GrinningFool 2y ago
    Many banks let you set this up directly with them - through their own site - via partner integrations with utility providers.
  - Sesse__ 2y ago
    Uh, why? Why would I need to go through a different procedure between each entity I want to pay? After all, the point of a bank is to make unified transfer procedures between entities.
- BizarroLand 2y ago
  It's only if you don't set up autopay, but you usually have to go to the website for the first time at least to set up the autopay.
  - Sesse__ 2y ago
    Username checks out. :-)
- dsr_ 2y ago
  I bet a shiny nickel that you live in a place where the liability for a mistake in this procedure is between the bank and the utility company, not on you. Over in the USA, setting up a bill autopay for a variable amount generally involves a credit card intermediary with a 2-4% rake or a lot of risk to you.
  - xnorswap 2y ago
    People in the USA need to lobby for better and modern banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit#United_Kingdom Not only does it not cost anything to the payer, the "Direct Debit Guarantee" also protects the payer from mistakes and fraud. This isn't a new system, it's over 50 years old. Paying bills shouldn't be a risky or expensive thing to do.
eitally 2y ago
I think the point they were trying to make is that enterprise software (served as SaaS for internal-to-the-business users) frequently has awful UX. Think things like SAP & Oracle (or anything Oracle has acquired, like Cerner, AgilePLM, etc) -- those big, heavy, complicated enterprise softwares rife with decade(s) of technical debt and no-longer-understood features that were tied to long forgotten business or technical requirements and created by commodity developers who weren't particularly skilled or particularly knowledgable about their domain. I ran an Enterprise Apps org for a F500 where IT was purely a cost center and we created crap like this all the time.
kodama-lens 2y ago
> Certainly my utility websites (e.g. electric/gas) are a lot more functional and a lot less user hostile, because...those companies would really like it if you paid your bill on time, so at least that workflow is pretty polished. Your utility websites are customer facing and everything that the user can't do themselves will result in a phone call or a ticket wich will directly drive up cost. In enterprise it is the opposite. Whatever the costumer cant do themselves requires a ticket. Any ticket or fast ticket response requires support wich increases revenue. I just had a meeting with someone from IBM last week about API Connect, they admit that their docs suck and are wrong in places. It is typical enterprise software, slow and cumbersome, just as reported by OP.
- Vilian 2y ago
  >In enterprise it is the opposite. Whatever the costumer cant do themselves requires a ticket. Any ticket or fast ticket response requires support wich increases revenue. this make so much sense, but i never thought about it

fein 2y ago

You aren't dealing with the enterprise site at that point - rather a public frontend that uses some enterprise-y backend. The real fun begins when you get into the actual enterprise frontends for internal use like SAP Netweaver and Sailpoint, which end up being quite a lot like the broadcom experience in the article.

not2b 2y ago
It's a racket. It might not be as common today, but I remember when there were lots of people whose career was based on their SAP expertise, and the reason they got hired was that no one else could deal with that crap if anything went wrong. Once a lot of those people get into big companies, their career is based on preventing their employer from dumping SAP (or equivalent) for something better. So, it's like they have agents inside all the large companies that use their stuff.
- eitally 2y ago
  When I worked in manufacturing IT for a F500, a full 20% of our IT organization was various flavors of Oracle support.
duozerk 2y ago
> Sailpoint Oh gods, the painful flashbacks.

Sesse__ 2y ago

Wait, you need to go to a website to pay your electric bill? Mine is auto-deducted from my bank (up to a certain monthly maximum that I have set myself). You get bills directly in your bank, and then approve (possibly allowing auto-deduction for future cases) or modify or ignore them as you see fit.

MH15 2y ago
One would figure you'd set up this autopay through the utility provider's website.
- GrinningFool 2y ago
  Many banks let you set this up directly with them - through their own site - via partner integrations with utility providers.
- Sesse__ 2y ago
  Uh, why? Why would I need to go through a different procedure between each entity I want to pay? After all, the point of a bank is to make unified transfer procedures between entities.
BizarroLand 2y ago
It's only if you don't set up autopay, but you usually have to go to the website for the first time at least to set up the autopay.
- Sesse__ 2y ago
  Username checks out. :-)
dsr_ 2y ago
I bet a shiny nickel that you live in a place where the liability for a mistake in this procedure is between the bank and the utility company, not on you. Over in the USA, setting up a bill autopay for a variable amount generally involves a credit card intermediary with a 2-4% rake or a lot of risk to you.
- xnorswap 2y ago
  People in the USA need to lobby for better and modern banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_debit#United_Kingdom Not only does it not cost anything to the payer, the "Direct Debit Guarantee" also protects the payer from mistakes and fraud. This isn't a new system, it's over 50 years old. Paying bills shouldn't be a risky or expensive thing to do.

eitally 2y ago

I think the point they were trying to make is that enterprise software (served as SaaS for internal-to-the-business users) frequently has awful UX. Think things like SAP & Oracle (or anything Oracle has acquired, like Cerner, AgilePLM, etc) -- those big, heavy, complicated enterprise softwares rife with decade(s) of technical debt and no-longer-understood features that were tied to long forgotten business or technical requirements and created by commodity developers who weren't particularly skilled or particularly knowledgable about their domain. I ran an Enterprise Apps org for a F500 where IT was purely a cost center and we created crap like this all the time.

kodama-lens 2y ago

> Certainly my utility websites (e.g. electric/gas) are a lot more functional and a lot less user hostile, because...those companies would really like it if you paid your bill on time, so at least that workflow is pretty polished. Your utility websites are customer facing and everything that the user can't do themselves will result in a phone call or a ticket wich will directly drive up cost. In enterprise it is the opposite. Whatever the costumer cant do themselves requires a ticket. Any ticket or fast ticket response requires support wich increases revenue. I just had a meeting with someone from IBM last week about API Connect, they admit that their docs suck and are wrong in places. It is typical enterprise software, slow and cumbersome, just as reported by OP.

Vilian 2y ago
>In enterprise it is the opposite. Whatever the costumer cant do themselves requires a ticket. Any ticket or fast ticket response requires support wich increases revenue. this make so much sense, but i never thought about it