5 ms·

Why can't openai just be a competent drama-free org? Is it impossible to build really cool tech without the upheaval?

CSMastermind 2y ago
Probably because if you collect a bunch of highly motivated and extremely smart people who are good at overcoming obstacles and eliminating problems they eventually start to see each other as obstacles or problems.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Having been on founding teams that imploded like open AI and ones that succeeded I've found that waving a big wad of cash before every meeting does wonders to motivate people. >This is what we all want, and we want it as fast as possible. Let's get through this together and enjoy our tropical islands alone. You can trust people's greed, you can't trust their morals. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen a large enough wad of cash yet.
  - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
    This is a bit confusing in the context of OpenAI drama. The employees at OpenAI have never really lacked monetary incentives. It seems that you... can't trust people's greed when they have ulterior motives like "safe AGI".
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      Open AI was founded on morals. It was a not for profit there for the benefit of humanity. Then M$ came around with a lot of cash and we got the soap opera we're seeing here.
      - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
        Right. But everybody didn't play along nicely, did they? Even though MS flaunted wads of cash in front of their faces. So we can't really trust everybody to choose greed over morals or whatnot.
  - chambers 2y ago
    > You can trust people's greed, you can't trust their morals. I've lived this experience. It's a time old tale. Judas Iscariot sold out his best friend for a few silver pieces. However, I've learned I can trust someone's morals so long as it comes from outside themselves. In small ways, that outside is society, school, company or circumstance. But I think the big one is more important, i.e., Jeremiah 17:9-10
  - Nullabillity 2y ago
    You can trust greed to produce something. You can also trust that something to be utterly worthless, at best.
makk 2y ago
> Why can't openai just be a competent drama-free org? Because it is run by humans, for the time being.
- jlarocco 2y ago
  That's funny. If OpenAI's tech is so great, why aren't they using it to direct the company yet?
Apocryphon 2y ago
This sort of thing happens even in FOSS projects all of the time, you can’t have people without drama. And perhaps you won’t have AI without drama, either.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Foss projects are drama. I've found it much worse in the non-profit space than the for profit space. Which openai showed us ironically.
jejeyyy77 2y ago
because these are 2 people who are at the top of the field and can work on literally anything they want.
motoboi 2y ago
You can't remove politics (human beings interacting) from human beings interactions.
JimDabell 2y ago
Where are you seeing the drama? Two people have left a startup, that’s all. It happens all the time.
- fourside 2y ago
  [dead]
- gaudystead 2y ago
  If you think those are the only points of drama, you may not have seen news about OpenAI from a couple months ago where Sam got ousted from the board, got in bed with Microsoft, then eventually came back to OpenAI, just to name one of the bigger dramas off the top of my head. It's definitely more than just the two data points from yesterday that you mentioned.
  - JimDabell 2y ago
    > If you think those are the only points of drama I’m not saying they are the only points of drama. I’m saying they aren’t points of drama. Sure, I saw the drama that happened a couple of months ago. But I’m replying to a comment on these departures, which seem drama-free.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jimberlage 2y ago
Less powerful inventions have caused more drama than this, historically speaking.
summerlight 2y ago
You have limited resources on both computations and engineering. And everyone have different, conflicting priorities. The group needs to make a decision where to put their resources, so there is politic.
ergocoder 2y ago
It started as a non-profit, which is the root of all the issues. It needs to find a way to get over that non-profit. otherwise, I don't think the company will survive longer term. The incentives are not super-aligned (pun intended). Employees want to build AI and make a lot of money at the same time, meanwhile the board (who wouldn't earn any money anyway) is willing to destroy money to further AI. If OpenAI was a normal for-profit company, Sam and co-founders would have been billionaires already. Now Sam seems to have other several stakes and side projects...

Probably because if you collect a bunch of highly motivated and extremely smart people who are good at overcoming obstacles and eliminating problems they eventually start to see each other as obstacles or problems.

llm_trw 2y ago
Having been on founding teams that imploded like open AI and ones that succeeded I've found that waving a big wad of cash before every meeting does wonders to motivate people. >This is what we all want, and we want it as fast as possible. Let's get through this together and enjoy our tropical islands alone. You can trust people's greed, you can't trust their morals. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen a large enough wad of cash yet.
- baobabKoodaa 2y ago
  This is a bit confusing in the context of OpenAI drama. The employees at OpenAI have never really lacked monetary incentives. It seems that you... can't trust people's greed when they have ulterior motives like "safe AGI".
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    Open AI was founded on morals. It was a not for profit there for the benefit of humanity. Then M$ came around with a lot of cash and we got the soap opera we're seeing here.
    - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
      Right. But everybody didn't play along nicely, did they? Even though MS flaunted wads of cash in front of their faces. So we can't really trust everybody to choose greed over morals or whatnot.
- chambers 2y ago
  > You can trust people's greed, you can't trust their morals. I've lived this experience. It's a time old tale. Judas Iscariot sold out his best friend for a few silver pieces. However, I've learned I can trust someone's morals so long as it comes from outside themselves. In small ways, that outside is society, school, company or circumstance. But I think the big one is more important, i.e., Jeremiah 17:9-10
- Nullabillity 2y ago
  You can trust greed to produce something. You can also trust that something to be utterly worthless, at best.

makk 2y ago

> Why can't openai just be a competent drama-free org? Because it is run by humans, for the time being.

jlarocco 2y ago
That's funny. If OpenAI's tech is so great, why aren't they using it to direct the company yet?

Apocryphon 2y ago

This sort of thing happens even in FOSS projects all of the time, you can’t have people without drama. And perhaps you won’t have AI without drama, either.

llm_trw 2y ago
Foss projects are drama. I've found it much worse in the non-profit space than the for profit space. Which openai showed us ironically.

jejeyyy77 2y ago

because these are 2 people who are at the top of the field and can work on literally anything they want.

motoboi 2y ago

You can't remove politics (human beings interacting) from human beings interactions.

JimDabell 2y ago

Where are you seeing the drama? Two people have left a startup, that’s all. It happens all the time.

fourside 2y ago
[dead]
gaudystead 2y ago
If you think those are the only points of drama, you may not have seen news about OpenAI from a couple months ago where Sam got ousted from the board, got in bed with Microsoft, then eventually came back to OpenAI, just to name one of the bigger dramas off the top of my head. It's definitely more than just the two data points from yesterday that you mentioned.
- JimDabell 2y ago
  > If you think those are the only points of drama I’m not saying they are the only points of drama. I’m saying they aren’t points of drama. Sure, I saw the drama that happened a couple of months ago. But I’m replying to a comment on these departures, which seem drama-free.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jimberlage 2y ago

Less powerful inventions have caused more drama than this, historically speaking.

summerlight 2y ago

You have limited resources on both computations and engineering. And everyone have different, conflicting priorities. The group needs to make a decision where to put their resources, so there is politic.

ergocoder 2y ago

It started as a non-profit, which is the root of all the issues. It needs to find a way to get over that non-profit. otherwise, I don't think the company will survive longer term. The incentives are not super-aligned (pun intended). Employees want to build AI and make a lot of money at the same time, meanwhile the board (who wouldn't earn any money anyway) is willing to destroy money to further AI. If OpenAI was a normal for-profit company, Sam and co-founders would have been billionaires already. Now Sam seems to have other several stakes and side projects...