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Any Americans moved to Japan? Like permanently? I am a naturalized US citizen and I don’t have Japanese family or something like that. So from that pov, what

Any Americans moved to Japan? Like permanently? I am a naturalized US citizen and I don’t have Japanese family or something like that. So from that pov, what was it like? How did you do it? I went to Japan and it was honestly the best place I’ve been. As a brown guy I felt so welcomed and people were so kind to me. Not to mention it’s so clean and orderly. Fwiw I’m a software engineer with a decade of experience. I have a business degree.

makeitdouble 2y ago
As long as you first find a stable and good enough job it's probably fine and not _that_ hard. There will be a ton of papers to deal with, including some banks that apparently aren't open to US citizens (probably because of taxation ?), but I don't think it's much more than for most countries on the globe. Speaking/Writing will also be a big part of it, but it's not insurmountable. You'll survive without it for a while (you've found a company willing to hire you anyway), and probably spend a few years learning before being fully proficient (reading contracts etc.) PS: I'm not american, so there's a bunch of details I might be missing but I haven't heard of specific troubles on that front.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- p_l 2y ago
  FATCA legislation pushed by US Congress (and then reneged on bidirectionality) made many banks just refuse to deal with people who fall under it.
  - tasoeur 2y ago
    Exactly. This is not just for Japan. Here in Europe I’ve been denied to open an account in local banks due to my dual citizenship (American).
    - p_l 2y ago
      It impacts everyone who has 1 degree connection to a person deemed required to pay US taxes.
pjc50 2y ago
I think patio11 has some writing on the subject. I believe that (like anywhere) there are barriers to immigration and things that aren't designed for or simply closed to foreigners, so you might need some local support to break the bank account / residential address / employer requirements cycle. What level JLPT do you have? Edit: patio11 blog https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...
NalNezumi 2y ago
Not American myself but I've met a whole range of Americans while living in Japan. Their experience varies, obviously, but I've noticed some pattern. I've met from the "top" of US hierarchy; white Harvard graduate (parents both from Harvard) who get to live very nice life with wide availability of choices, to the "lows", Latino high-school dropout from the ghetto. Those two both love living here, for different reasons, while a lot of people coming here working as English teachers just loath the place and leave after 3-4 years. All in all I think (like most places) it really depends on 3 things, what job(income) you can get, what social circle you'll find, and what expectations you have in the place (and your life). The most content ones I've met is well paid engineers married with kids. Having kids just makes you part of the community so much easier. Also being an engineer from US probably means you're not that annoyed by work culture (compared to say Europe). The safety is ofc incomparably better and most people get used to being perpetually treated as "the foreigner"; people that can't get over the latter, usually sooner or later, will start to resent the place. Since the majority of Americans coming to Japan to live, is white college graduate who end up as English teacher (horrible job with bad pay), they start to loathe the place after the honeymoon phase. Online forum is filled with these types so staying away from those is also crucial ( I'm looking at r/japanlife)
- wink 2y ago
  > not that annoyed by work culture (compared to say Europe) Care to elaborate?
  - NalNezumi 2y ago
    Just my 2 cent, but the Japanese work culture can be quite stressful, in the way it's demanding and hierarchical. As a tech worker you have more leverage when choosing jobs. Also tech is a bit more modern / younger so there's more willingness to circumvent that hierarchy and cultural work pressure (drinking out, over-politeness etc). But still, the work is a bit more hectic and you're expected to prioritize work when required (deadlines etc). Also not as much paid leave. Which is not too different from the what's plausible in US, but in Europe this attitude is often strongly frowned upon, even in tech, so it might be an absolute deal breaker
GuB-42 2y ago
I know a few people who went to live in Japan. Some came back, others didn't. I can't help about the paperwork, but the general sentiment is that the "I felt so welcomed and people were so kind to me" part is only on the surface. Tourists are very welcome in tourist places, not so much elsewhere, and don't mistake politeness for kindness. One common theme when at work is that as a "gaijin", if something goes wrong, it is always your fault, even if you speak Japanese perfectly (a must), and even if you have citizenship (note that Japan doesn't allow multiple citizenship). Racism (xenophobia, actually) is very present, but in a more insidious manner than in the west. It doesn't mean Japan is a bad place to live in, cleanliness and order are real things, and the low crime rate is very appreciable. Politeness is nice too, but it goes together with hypocrisy, so if you value things like consideration, harmony, and agreement, Japan may be for you, but if instead, you value honesty, directness and to confront ideas, maybe not so much.
- minebreaker 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ekanes 2y ago
    This isn't the place for that comment, nor is it substantiated by the data.
    - minebreaker 2y ago
      Are you saying that this is the place for the comment like "Racism (xenophobia, actually) is very present"? Or don't you think it is xenophobic?
  - jajko 2y ago
    Don't read too much into that, tons of places are quietly xenophobic while publicly they project a different image. There is huge difference big cities vs rural areas, don't expect simpler folks living few decades in the past to be very welcoming towards unknown. Its slowly fading away from the face of the earth, but don't let some virtual bubbles like HN or physical ones like say SF or NY or western European big cities make the impression that this is how everybody there thinks. People generally don't change their set-in-stone core opinions, critical thinking and self-reassessment is a privilege of relatively few, but they for sure learned to keep it to themselves these times.
resonious 2y ago
I'm an American citizen with Japanese permanent residency. Weirdly enough I moved here via a Software Engineer job posting I saw in an HN "whos hiring". This was about 5 years ago, right before covid hit. Clearly I've taken a liking to it, as I'm still here despite the potential to make way more money by being back home. For me, I was interested in learning the language and experiencing a new culture, and so it was a blast. If you're not interested in those things, you will likely not last more than a few years (though I do know a few foreigners here who've been here 10+ years without learning a lick of Japanese). The company I joined helped a lot with getting a bank account and phone number and such. Those tasks can be hard without help, although it's practically a meme at this point so I think it's easier now, as companies try to fill that gap. Another meme is that it's hard to find a place to rent as a foreigner. This might be somewhat true, but it's never happened to me and so I think it's a bit outdated. Overall it's very comfortable. Sometimes too much so I think - nobody takes risks and so nothing really changes. I do like being able to go almost anywhere without a car.
tkgally 2y ago
> Any Americans moved to Japan? Like permanently? I grew up in California and moved to Japan forty-one years ago, at the age of twenty-six. I have lived here ever since. As others in this thread have noted, everyone is different. In my case, what has kept me here is having learned the language well after I arrived, entering first one career (translation) and then, twenty years later, another (in academia) for which my language ability and my understanding of the culture were essential, having and raising a family here, continuing to find the country and culture interesting, and finding a comfortable living situation. Now Japan feels like home and I can’t imagine leaving. However, I have known a lot of people who started out similar to me but who ended up leaving after a while. I don’t want to generalize about them, either, but there are some characteristics I have noticed among Americans who didn’t stay: They didn’t learn the language well, or they couldn’t find jobs that suited them, or they were annoyed at always being treated like a foreigner (more common in the countryside than in the cities), or they had aging parents back home, or they just felt homesick.

makeitdouble 2y ago

As long as you first find a stable and good enough job it's probably fine and not _that_ hard. There will be a ton of papers to deal with, including some banks that apparently aren't open to US citizens (probably because of taxation ?), but I don't think it's much more than for most countries on the globe. Speaking/Writing will also be a big part of it, but it's not insurmountable. You'll survive without it for a while (you've found a company willing to hire you anyway), and probably spend a few years learning before being fully proficient (reading contracts etc.) PS: I'm not american, so there's a bunch of details I might be missing but I haven't heard of specific troubles on that front.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
p_l 2y ago
FATCA legislation pushed by US Congress (and then reneged on bidirectionality) made many banks just refuse to deal with people who fall under it.
- tasoeur 2y ago
  Exactly. This is not just for Japan. Here in Europe I’ve been denied to open an account in local banks due to my dual citizenship (American).
  - p_l 2y ago
    It impacts everyone who has 1 degree connection to a person deemed required to pay US taxes.

pjc50 2y ago

I think patio11 has some writing on the subject. I believe that (like anywhere) there are barriers to immigration and things that aren't designed for or simply closed to foreigners, so you might need some local support to break the bank account / residential address / employer requirements cycle. What level JLPT do you have? Edit: patio11 blog https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...

NalNezumi 2y ago

Not American myself but I've met a whole range of Americans while living in Japan. Their experience varies, obviously, but I've noticed some pattern. I've met from the "top" of US hierarchy; white Harvard graduate (parents both from Harvard) who get to live very nice life with wide availability of choices, to the "lows", Latino high-school dropout from the ghetto. Those two both love living here, for different reasons, while a lot of people coming here working as English teachers just loath the place and leave after 3-4 years. All in all I think (like most places) it really depends on 3 things, what job(income) you can get, what social circle you'll find, and what expectations you have in the place (and your life). The most content ones I've met is well paid engineers married with kids. Having kids just makes you part of the community so much easier. Also being an engineer from US probably means you're not that annoyed by work culture (compared to say Europe). The safety is ofc incomparably better and most people get used to being perpetually treated as "the foreigner"; people that can't get over the latter, usually sooner or later, will start to resent the place. Since the majority of Americans coming to Japan to live, is white college graduate who end up as English teacher (horrible job with bad pay), they start to loathe the place after the honeymoon phase. Online forum is filled with these types so staying away from those is also crucial ( I'm looking at r/japanlife)

wink 2y ago
> not that annoyed by work culture (compared to say Europe) Care to elaborate?
- NalNezumi 2y ago
  Just my 2 cent, but the Japanese work culture can be quite stressful, in the way it's demanding and hierarchical. As a tech worker you have more leverage when choosing jobs. Also tech is a bit more modern / younger so there's more willingness to circumvent that hierarchy and cultural work pressure (drinking out, over-politeness etc). But still, the work is a bit more hectic and you're expected to prioritize work when required (deadlines etc). Also not as much paid leave. Which is not too different from the what's plausible in US, but in Europe this attitude is often strongly frowned upon, even in tech, so it might be an absolute deal breaker

GuB-42 2y ago

I know a few people who went to live in Japan. Some came back, others didn't. I can't help about the paperwork, but the general sentiment is that the "I felt so welcomed and people were so kind to me" part is only on the surface. Tourists are very welcome in tourist places, not so much elsewhere, and don't mistake politeness for kindness. One common theme when at work is that as a "gaijin", if something goes wrong, it is always your fault, even if you speak Japanese perfectly (a must), and even if you have citizenship (note that Japan doesn't allow multiple citizenship). Racism (xenophobia, actually) is very present, but in a more insidious manner than in the west. It doesn't mean Japan is a bad place to live in, cleanliness and order are real things, and the low crime rate is very appreciable. Politeness is nice too, but it goes together with hypocrisy, so if you value things like consideration, harmony, and agreement, Japan may be for you, but if instead, you value honesty, directness and to confront ideas, maybe not so much.

minebreaker 2y ago
[flagged]
- ekanes 2y ago
  This isn't the place for that comment, nor is it substantiated by the data.
  - minebreaker 2y ago
    Are you saying that this is the place for the comment like "Racism (xenophobia, actually) is very present"? Or don't you think it is xenophobic?
- jajko 2y ago
  Don't read too much into that, tons of places are quietly xenophobic while publicly they project a different image. There is huge difference big cities vs rural areas, don't expect simpler folks living few decades in the past to be very welcoming towards unknown. Its slowly fading away from the face of the earth, but don't let some virtual bubbles like HN or physical ones like say SF or NY or western European big cities make the impression that this is how everybody there thinks. People generally don't change their set-in-stone core opinions, critical thinking and self-reassessment is a privilege of relatively few, but they for sure learned to keep it to themselves these times.

resonious 2y ago

I'm an American citizen with Japanese permanent residency. Weirdly enough I moved here via a Software Engineer job posting I saw in an HN "whos hiring". This was about 5 years ago, right before covid hit. Clearly I've taken a liking to it, as I'm still here despite the potential to make way more money by being back home. For me, I was interested in learning the language and experiencing a new culture, and so it was a blast. If you're not interested in those things, you will likely not last more than a few years (though I do know a few foreigners here who've been here 10+ years without learning a lick of Japanese). The company I joined helped a lot with getting a bank account and phone number and such. Those tasks can be hard without help, although it's practically a meme at this point so I think it's easier now, as companies try to fill that gap. Another meme is that it's hard to find a place to rent as a foreigner. This might be somewhat true, but it's never happened to me and so I think it's a bit outdated. Overall it's very comfortable. Sometimes too much so I think - nobody takes risks and so nothing really changes. I do like being able to go almost anywhere without a car.

tkgally 2y ago

> Any Americans moved to Japan? Like permanently? I grew up in California and moved to Japan forty-one years ago, at the age of twenty-six. I have lived here ever since. As others in this thread have noted, everyone is different. In my case, what has kept me here is having learned the language well after I arrived, entering first one career (translation) and then, twenty years later, another (in academia) for which my language ability and my understanding of the culture were essential, having and raising a family here, continuing to find the country and culture interesting, and finding a comfortable living situation. Now Japan feels like home and I can’t imagine leaving. However, I have known a lot of people who started out similar to me but who ended up leaving after a while. I don’t want to generalize about them, either, but there are some characteristics I have noticed among Americans who didn’t stay: They didn’t learn the language well, or they couldn’t find jobs that suited them, or they were annoyed at always being treated like a foreigner (more common in the countryside than in the cities), or they had aging parents back home, or they just felt homesick.