4 ms·

Show me any time in the past 50 years where taxes went up and the deficit went down.

by dgfitz 2y ago

Terr_ 2y ago
Were you around for the late 90s?
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  That’s looking back 20+ years longer than is necessary.
  - wormius 2y ago
    The comment is in reply to this statement: " dgfitz 1 hour ago | root | parent | next [–] Show me any time in the past 50 years where taxes went up and the deficit went down." Maybe you meant to reply to the parent? Because the 90s is within the time frame.
    - Terr_ 2y ago
      I interpreted is as: "There are more-recent examples than the 90s, which may make for better evidence and/or a better retort."
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        Exactly, while the 90s are certainly within the past 50 years, you can find examples with a much smaller lookback window. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40362029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40362029
        dgfitz 2y ago
        I’ve been around enough to know that you have an agenda and I’m not interested in engaging. Not a fan.
Retric 2y ago
Clinton presidency is what comes to mind. Higher taxes, lower deficit, there was a real concern what would happen if the government stopped borrowing money. More taxes and lower defense spending made a huge impact, though solid economic growth obviously helped. We had an actual budget surplus from 1998 to 2001 though it was quickly ended by Bush.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  Republicans always care about the deficit more when a Democrat is president, so the Republican revolution had to do something useful, and they decided to focus on the debt and the deficit since Russia and China were too peaceful back then, and they were wary to go after illegal immigration after Pete Wilson losing California. Bill Clinton, being a blue dog, really had no problem with that (they also got to cut a lot of welfare that Bill Clinton also didn't care much about). But this actually horrified the Republican leadership, as what they say and what they want are usually very different, hence Dick Cheney's comment on surpluses being evil.
dragonwriter 2y ago
Just recently! Federal revenue as a share of GDP (the best measure of across-the-economy effective tax rate) went up from 2020 (16.0%) to 2021 (17.2%) and from 2021 (17.2%) to 2022 (19.0%). Federal deficit in both nominal and share of GDP terms dropped in the same intervals, 2020 ($3.13 trillion, 14.7%) to 2021 ($2.78 trillion, 11.8%) to 2022 ($1.38 trillion, 5.3%).
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Hmm, I didn’t ask about effective tax rate at all.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    > I didn't ask about Well what did you (intend to) ask for then? The ball's in your court to clarify, because the phrase "taxes went up" could mean total collections in real dollars, it might mean total collection in real dollars per capita, or top theoretical marginal income rate, or average effective rate (which you just denied), or just income taxes and not other taxes, or income taxes and payroll taxes, ad nauseam. There's no point finding historical examples only for you to declare that it doesn't count because it doesn't match your unstated hidden idea.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    You asked about “taxes went up”. There were (as is frequently the case) both tax increases and decreases in both years. How would you assess whether, overall, “taxes went up” or not other than by the economy-wide effective tax rate?

Show me any time in the past 50 years where taxes went up and the deficit went down.

by dgfitz 2y ago

Show me any time in the past 50 years where taxes went up and the deficit went down.

Terr_ 2y ago

Were you around for the late 90s?

dragonwriter 2y ago
That’s looking back 20+ years longer than is necessary.
- wormius 2y ago
  The comment is in reply to this statement: " dgfitz 1 hour ago | root | parent | next [–] Show me any time in the past 50 years where taxes went up and the deficit went down." Maybe you meant to reply to the parent? Because the 90s is within the time frame.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    I interpreted is as: "There are more-recent examples than the 90s, which may make for better evidence and/or a better retort."
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      Exactly, while the 90s are certainly within the past 50 years, you can find examples with a much smaller lookback window. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40362029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40362029
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        I’ve been around enough to know that you have an agenda and I’m not interested in engaging. Not a fan.

Retric 2y ago

Clinton presidency is what comes to mind. Higher taxes, lower deficit, there was a real concern what would happen if the government stopped borrowing money. More taxes and lower defense spending made a huge impact, though solid economic growth obviously helped. We had an actual budget surplus from 1998 to 2001 though it was quickly ended by Bush.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Republicans always care about the deficit more when a Democrat is president, so the Republican revolution had to do something useful, and they decided to focus on the debt and the deficit since Russia and China were too peaceful back then, and they were wary to go after illegal immigration after Pete Wilson losing California. Bill Clinton, being a blue dog, really had no problem with that (they also got to cut a lot of welfare that Bill Clinton also didn't care much about). But this actually horrified the Republican leadership, as what they say and what they want are usually very different, hence Dick Cheney's comment on surpluses being evil.

dragonwriter 2y ago

Just recently! Federal revenue as a share of GDP (the best measure of across-the-economy effective tax rate) went up from 2020 (16.0%) to 2021 (17.2%) and from 2021 (17.2%) to 2022 (19.0%). Federal deficit in both nominal and share of GDP terms dropped in the same intervals, 2020 ($3.13 trillion, 14.7%) to 2021 ($2.78 trillion, 11.8%) to 2022 ($1.38 trillion, 5.3%).

dgfitz 2y ago
Hmm, I didn’t ask about effective tax rate at all.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > I didn't ask about Well what did you (intend to) ask for then? The ball's in your court to clarify, because the phrase "taxes went up" could mean total collections in real dollars, it might mean total collection in real dollars per capita, or top theoretical marginal income rate, or average effective rate (which you just denied), or just income taxes and not other taxes, or income taxes and payroll taxes, ad nauseam. There's no point finding historical examples only for you to declare that it doesn't count because it doesn't match your unstated hidden idea.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  You asked about “taxes went up”. There were (as is frequently the case) both tax increases and decreases in both years. How would you assess whether, overall, “taxes went up” or not other than by the economy-wide effective tax rate?