4 ms·

Maybe if you like DEX you should just buy DEX? I love the iPad I have and I don't need more ways to shoot myself in the foot, I have a computer for that

ProfessorLayton 2y ago
This is akin to telling people that want to load their own software/sideload apps to an iPhone to go buy an Android. It is neither what they asked for, nor something that'll impact you if you choose not to participate.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  No, it is telling people "if you want a computer then get a computer". Perhaps one reason iPad is so insanely successful and a pleasure to use (compared to dex etc) is that it's specifically not one. Connect the dots.
  - criddell 2y ago
    You’re describing me. If it were up to me, the iPad would be even simpler than it is now.
    - kokada 2y ago
      I really don't have any issue with iPad being focused in non-technical users, but them Apple really should drop the "Pro" moniker in iPad and just stop using Apple Mx and go back to use Ax CPUs instead (and also, a sharp drop in price). I think that is the main point of the article above, and also why so many people would want an iPad Pro to actually have Pro features [1]. [1]: Yes, I know about iPhone Pro, but at least iPhone Pro have some exclusive features that make sense for Pro users like USB 3.0 and ProRes camera features. However in the case of iPad Pro, what is actually the workflow that requires a better CPU? Final Cut? And that is it basically.
      - kokada 2y ago
        BTW, I would be happy if iPad OS at least exposed its hypervisor for applications, so UTM (https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/) would be useful in a non-jailbroken device. But not even that, you are limited to using JIT unless you have a jailbroken device (or outdated versions of iOS).
      - least 2y ago
        A better SOC improves the workflow for music production, 3d modeling/sculpting, illustration, video editing, and probably many other pro workflows I'm not thinking of at the moment. The fact that the iPad is a shitty development platform doesn't mean that it lacks pro features or people can't make use of the improvements to the CPU/GPU.
        kokada 2y ago
        That as the article shows, are not that good because iPad OS sucks in lots of areas that Pros needs (e.g. File manager for people doing video editing).
        least 2y ago
        I strongly agree with almost everything Federico complains about in this article, especially file management like you mention. It is a pain point. It doesn't mean iPads aren't great for a lot of these things. I have different nitpicks about any system I use; it doesn't disqualify it from being legitimately good for X task.
        kokada 2y ago
        > I strongly agree with almost everything Federico complains about in this article, especially file management like you mention. It is a pain point. It doesn't mean iPads aren't great for a lot of these things. I think there is a difference between being "great" and "usable". I consider iPad usable for all those tasks, but to be great you actually need to offer more features to Pro users. Right now, the only Pro usage I think iPad are great is drawing, but in this case you can even get by with a first or second generation iPad Pro. But maybe I am nitpicking, you are right that iPads are ok for some Pro users, but great would be too much.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Yep, every step they take to make the UI closer to a desktop OS makes me less happy with it. Peak was iOS6.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    Dex is basically an elaborate app. Telling people to buy a different device to get an app means there is a failure going on in what is offered. The dots don't connect.
  - ProfessorLayton 2y ago
    Do you think Apple considers it "insanely successful" that the iPad has gone from over 41B in inflation-adjusted revenue over a decade ago, to 28B in 2023? Are articles like these pointing out the issues with the OS not a reflection that the product isn't meeting user's needs, and at least partially explaining the decline? Lastly, do you think Apple shares your mantra of "If you want a [device] then get a [device]" when they developed the ability to run iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Macs? iPads can run iOS apps too, why didn't Apple tell them to get an iOS device instead?
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      If you make a device that works and doesn't become quickly obsolete then yeah its sales will go down as more people get it. > Lastly, do you think Apple shares your mantra of "If you want a [device] then get a [device]" when they developed the ability to run iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Macs? iPads can run iOS apps too, why didn't Apple tell them to get an iOS device instead? One is a computer, it's natural to give it more features but not the reverse...
makeitdouble 2y ago
It would be fine if there was a flurry of DEX tablets and a ton of competition in the market. Then the iPad could be a device on the side, the same way Apple monitors are a specific taste of monitors and very few people complain about what they can and cannot do. Things is, there's very few competent tablets: basically two or three makers on the Windows side, the Samsung Ultra tablets, Xiaomi, and the iPad Pro. And right now the future or the Surface Pro line is pretty dicy, so the iPad becoming more competent would be more than welcome. To your point, there could be more differenciation between the "pro" line and the regular iPads.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Pro work can be done in iPad. Audio production, photo processing, painting, 3D modeling and what have you. The only pro thing that is being complained about here is programming but hey most people are not programmers. Don't let the HN echo chamber mislead you...
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    There is a lot of gotcha outside of the obvious stuff. For instance iOS's process management model means your program gets suspended if it goes too long in the background. Let's say you want to write an email in fullscreen while exporting your superb 4K movie in the background, tough luck. Idem if you want to have multiple programs running video content in parrallel (or even look at multiple videos at the same time. Short of using a dedicated app, the default ones won't help you) The browser situation could get resolved as the EU has pressured Apple to do it, but there is still a lot of things that could get improved to help power users, even outside of our circles.

ProfessorLayton 2y ago

This is akin to telling people that want to load their own software/sideload apps to an iPhone to go buy an Android. It is neither what they asked for, nor something that'll impact you if you choose not to participate.

throwaway290 2y ago
No, it is telling people "if you want a computer then get a computer". Perhaps one reason iPad is so insanely successful and a pleasure to use (compared to dex etc) is that it's specifically not one. Connect the dots.
- criddell 2y ago
  You’re describing me. If it were up to me, the iPad would be even simpler than it is now.
  - kokada 2y ago
    I really don't have any issue with iPad being focused in non-technical users, but them Apple really should drop the "Pro" moniker in iPad and just stop using Apple Mx and go back to use Ax CPUs instead (and also, a sharp drop in price). I think that is the main point of the article above, and also why so many people would want an iPad Pro to actually have Pro features [1]. [1]: Yes, I know about iPhone Pro, but at least iPhone Pro have some exclusive features that make sense for Pro users like USB 3.0 and ProRes camera features. However in the case of iPad Pro, what is actually the workflow that requires a better CPU? Final Cut? And that is it basically.
    - kokada 2y ago
      BTW, I would be happy if iPad OS at least exposed its hypervisor for applications, so UTM (https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/ https://docs.getutm.app/installation/ios/) would be useful in a non-jailbroken device. But not even that, you are limited to using JIT unless you have a jailbroken device (or outdated versions of iOS).
    - least 2y ago
      A better SOC improves the workflow for music production, 3d modeling/sculpting, illustration, video editing, and probably many other pro workflows I'm not thinking of at the moment. The fact that the iPad is a shitty development platform doesn't mean that it lacks pro features or people can't make use of the improvements to the CPU/GPU.
      - kokada 2y ago
        That as the article shows, are not that good because iPad OS sucks in lots of areas that Pros needs (e.g. File manager for people doing video editing).
        least 2y ago
        I strongly agree with almost everything Federico complains about in this article, especially file management like you mention. It is a pain point. It doesn't mean iPads aren't great for a lot of these things. I have different nitpicks about any system I use; it doesn't disqualify it from being legitimately good for X task.
        kokada 2y ago
        > I strongly agree with almost everything Federico complains about in this article, especially file management like you mention. It is a pain point. It doesn't mean iPads aren't great for a lot of these things. I think there is a difference between being "great" and "usable". I consider iPad usable for all those tasks, but to be great you actually need to offer more features to Pro users. Right now, the only Pro usage I think iPad are great is drawing, but in this case you can even get by with a first or second generation iPad Pro. But maybe I am nitpicking, you are right that iPads are ok for some Pro users, but great would be too much.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Yep, every step they take to make the UI closer to a desktop OS makes me less happy with it. Peak was iOS6.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  Dex is basically an elaborate app. Telling people to buy a different device to get an app means there is a failure going on in what is offered. The dots don't connect.
- ProfessorLayton 2y ago
  Do you think Apple considers it "insanely successful" that the iPad has gone from over 41B in inflation-adjusted revenue over a decade ago, to 28B in 2023? Are articles like these pointing out the issues with the OS not a reflection that the product isn't meeting user's needs, and at least partially explaining the decline? Lastly, do you think Apple shares your mantra of "If you want a [device] then get a [device]" when they developed the ability to run iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Macs? iPads can run iOS apps too, why didn't Apple tell them to get an iOS device instead?
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    If you make a device that works and doesn't become quickly obsolete then yeah its sales will go down as more people get it. > Lastly, do you think Apple shares your mantra of "If you want a [device] then get a [device]" when they developed the ability to run iOS/iPadOS apps on Apple Silicon Macs? iPads can run iOS apps too, why didn't Apple tell them to get an iOS device instead? One is a computer, it's natural to give it more features but not the reverse...

makeitdouble 2y ago

It would be fine if there was a flurry of DEX tablets and a ton of competition in the market. Then the iPad could be a device on the side, the same way Apple monitors are a specific taste of monitors and very few people complain about what they can and cannot do. Things is, there's very few competent tablets: basically two or three makers on the Windows side, the Samsung Ultra tablets, Xiaomi, and the iPad Pro. And right now the future or the Surface Pro line is pretty dicy, so the iPad becoming more competent would be more than welcome. To your point, there could be more differenciation between the "pro" line and the regular iPads.

throwaway290 2y ago
Pro work can be done in iPad. Audio production, photo processing, painting, 3D modeling and what have you. The only pro thing that is being complained about here is programming but hey most people are not programmers. Don't let the HN echo chamber mislead you...
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  There is a lot of gotcha outside of the obvious stuff. For instance iOS's process management model means your program gets suspended if it goes too long in the background. Let's say you want to write an email in fullscreen while exporting your superb 4K movie in the background, tough luck. Idem if you want to have multiple programs running video content in parrallel (or even look at multiple videos at the same time. Short of using a dedicated app, the default ones won't help you) The browser situation could get resolved as the EU has pressured Apple to do it, but there is still a lot of things that could get improved to help power users, even outside of our circles.